Ok!... now I have a new Fluid Flywheel for my ailing Saracen, I want to fit it!

[ferrettkitt]

-does anyone have any of these to hand? or is it just normal gasket paper... how thick should it be?..... which 'seal' are you referring to? the one on the gearbox side of the coupling, around the splined part of the coupling?

 

Banisters will have the paper gasket I bought one of him for my Ferret it didn't arrive in time so I made one up out of gasket paper. Presuming that the Saracen is similar to the Ferret the seal I mean is the one where the splines would slot into (output or is it input to the gearbox).

[oily]

oh bugger!..... I guess I'll have to try and source one of the seals locally, from a bearing/seal supplier then... I can't seem to find Bannisters' details.... they don't appear on milweb, or in my google listing....:-|

[Richard Farrant]

oh bugger!..... I guess I'll have to try and source one of the seals locally, from a bearing/seal supplier then... I can't seem to find Bannisters' details.... they don't appear on milweb, or in my google listing....:-|

 

 

They are still on Milweb, phone number is 01797 253211

[FourFox]

Hi Matt

 

My latest thinking on paper gaskets for the fluid flywheel is to use a sealant (intead of the paper). It has to be resilient to high temperature, as you know things down there can get pretty hot!

I use Blue Hylomar. You have to get the mating surfaces free of all paint/debris etc. before applying. Use plenty.

I also use sealant on the bearing centre carrier and flywheel bolts as these can be a source of leaks.

 

Leave the sealant to set for 1 hour.

Fill the flywheel with fluid up to the filler plug being careful not to spill any (it helps when checking for leaks).

 

Check for oil leaking from the joint and center oil seal.

Turn the flywheel to a few positions and leave for a few hours to check for leaks again.

If any leaks, then it all has to be done again.

You can adapt a filler plug to enable the flywheel assembly to be put under about 15psi to test for leaks.

Then bash over the tab washers.

 

I think that the reason for Ferret (and Saracen/Saladin) having a paper seal and the Fox doesn't is that the J60 is capable of running much faster (5,500 rpm and more before it all goes bang!). The higher centifugal force possible can dislodge the gasket or force the thin oil past it, causing a leak.

 

Once the Hylomar has sealed, it doesn't appear to fail.

I have now done 8 Fox and 2 Saladin flywheel repacements.

I have had to re-do the hylomar seal 3 times after finding small static leaks.

I now do it properly and use more goop!

 

Regards

Jon

Edited May 3, 2011 by FourFox

[oily]

thanks Jon!..... I'll go and buy a big bucket of Hylomar, now then aswell!:undecided:

[oily]

Ok, finally, I have made a start on fixing the leaky Fluid Flywheel on my Saracen.... what a lot of nuts and bolts to undo! I will be making a step, by step photo-blog of how I've gone about this lengthy task, but for now here's how far I got in one afternoon:

 

Drivers' seat.

Drivers' footwell plates.

Handbrake Lever and ratchet mechanism.

Transfer Lever.

Bellhousing cover/floor plate.

Drivers' seat floor plate.

 

-all this and only two snapped bolts!, both in the floor plate, so they are easy to remove and re-tap.... I was on a roll at this point, and decided to take a peek inside the gearbox, by opening the top cover,..... what a site to behold!... it was like looking inside a factory-fresh, new gearbox!..... fresh clean looking components, no stains or rust, and the oil looked quite clean too, but it was an odd smell, not like engine, or gear oil,.... possibly the wrong type was put in by a previous keeper?... it smelled a bit like hot cutting oil, even though it was stone cold.....?

I managed to loosen the top 8 bellhousing nuts/bolts too!:cool2:.... watch this space for updates, hers a few pictures so far....:-\

[oily]

...it doesn't look as if it'll be ready by 26th of May, and our fabulous Military Vehicle Show, -'Overlord 2011', at Denmead, near Portsmouth, Hampshire....it'll be a shame if it's not ready:-(

[N.O.S.]

.... fresh clean looking components, no stains or rust, and the oil looked quite clean too, but it was an odd smell, not like engine, or gear oil,.... possibly the wrong type was put in by a previous keeper?... it smelled a bit like hot cutting oil, even though it was stone cold.....?

 

Welcome to the world of 'strange smelling oils' - the world of automatic transmissions

Nothing to worry about - normal for a unit like this - the aroma of burnt oil and friction material, bit like an oil-soaked clutch smell.

[oily]

Well today was a good day!,..... in order for me to continue with the task ahead, my good mate Tom turned up to the yard, with his Unimog, and between us we managed to turn my Saracen round, so it faces outwards from it's parking space. This will allow me to tackle things from the engine bay end. I'd forgotten how heavy on the steering things are with no assistance:shocked: from the engine driven hydraulics system.(batteries dead, need replacing, also no fuel...:nut:)

I feel like Charles flippin' Atlas now..., I'll post up some more pics very soon.

[simonm]

Hi All, a bit late to help with the ailing saracen, but I wanted to comment on the option of drawing the engine forward rather than all the way out.

 

 

In my case the engine was running great, starts on the button - once the petrol has been pumped through - but a dodgy fluid flywheel seal. 3 years of topping up on a regular basis then various attempts with interesting magic seals that you put in with automatic transmission fluid and finally a realisation that the seal had to be done. I had already replaced the seal on my ferret, then the gasket, but that was by removing the gearbox not engine, its a MK1/2 so not that difficult (LOL).

 

As to the paper gasket, I used gasket goo and then ran ptfe tape (the thicker gas type) all the way round twice before re joining the two halves of the flywheel.

 

Also, when removing the flywheel seal retaining plate, there are two threaded holes which are used to tighten a couple of bolts into to push the plate out, do it very very slowly and evenly so that there is no risk of cracking the plate.

 

 

Back to the Saracen, I have a very good engine crane, certainly enough extension to take the engine all the way out, but its just me doing the job and its outside and my experince is the more bolts and stuff taken off the more left over at the end of the job. So, by removing grill, fan assembly, front engine support, drivers seat, not too many panels to get access to the flywheel, yes you can change the seal without taking the engine all the way out. Note the two rails that the front of the gearbox and rear of the engine sit on, just slide the engine froward on these while supporting at the front with crane.

 

Working on the flywheel / seal is fiddly, especially working around the steering assembly, and fortunately in hindsight, for me the right thing to do. However I'm not sure that there would be enough room to completely remove the flywheel.

 

I replaced the seal with a John Deare equivalent that has a dual seal. The large washer that holds the seal in with the retaining plate can simply be reversed to make it fit.

 

Anyway, so far so good, though there is not anything that would go wrong more so than taking the engine all the way out.

 

What slowed the whole operation down has been this dreadful wet weather, I'm working outside, most weekends it has rained and the job has sat out there waiting. Its now fired up and been manouvered, all fine so far! And no puddle of fluid!!!

 

Here's a whole load of pictures taken during the project

 

https://plus.google.com/photos/103108505805474614266/albums/5665617871700136369?authkey=CI2miu7a2Izefw

 

Hope all this helps somebody

 

Simon

Edited June 12, 2012 by simonm
typo

[haybaggerman]

Oh, this is my future. Just don't have the time,

 

Thanks for taking all the photos guys, its a real help to those of us with quite possibly leaky flywheels.

 

Cheers

 

Paul