Disused train tracks

[R Cubed]

A strange question but here goes, you have a farm and various fields all around, through which there is a disused train track and tunnel, been up for about 30 years, no track or sleepers, does the farmer have the right to use the ground where the track ran ?

 

Added:-

 

This is only a hypothetical discussion a few friends and myself had in a pub the other day ....

Edited November 30, 2010 by R Cubed
added some words

[Great War truck]

I thought the land would have been sold when the track was lifted. Thats what usually happens.

[ferrettkitt]

The tunnel might not have been sold it may still belong with Railtrack or been passed to the local council or another approved body. A check with the Railtrack, Land Registry or the local council should provide him the answer.

[timbo]

You often find that there are limitations on what use it can be put to. If I remember rightly there are statutes covering this - the idea being that the land might be needed at some point in future for the tracks to be relaid. Of course there are plenty of examples of housing estates being built on old railway lines but I think that's the theory anyway.

 

I think this is why they are often turned into cycle and footpaths, because they then have some use but can be relaid with relative ease...

[Adrian]

It depends, the tunnel would have to be looked after by some authority as it is a structure, and many are still under Network Rail jurisdiction. Redundant tunnels are often designated bat sanctuaries.

 

I think the trackbed, while not being a free for all would be of less concern and the farmer can probably get away with using it. Although as GWT stated the land could have been sold after the line was abandoned.

 

Where abouts is it? Is the tunnel bricked up?

 

A

Edited November 29, 2010 by Adrian
typo

[Adrian]

Are you thinking of using the tunnel as an MV storage area?

[ChasSomT.]

If I remember rightly, it depends if the old track has been designated a 'Strategic Route'

There is one from Frome to Radstock in Somerset, and as has been said above, most of it is a cycleway/footpath. All the bridges are still there, and obviously maintained, the track is still there for some of the way, as if lifting was halted when the status was decided. :-)

Chas.

[Axenige]

I was under the impression that in most cases the strip of land that constituted the original railway line remind the property of the state if it was a nationalised local branch line, or mainline, ether at a local or at national level. Some have been sold off to various private organisations such as railway preservation trust etc, but again these section of track are still being used as just that railway line. As to who own what thirty years on in your case, is anyone guess, but if there are tunnels involved then I'm sure they will stay in state hands due to safety issues, as some of these old derelict rail and canal tunnels are very much the worse for ware these days, I know of one in the midlands where the inner skin of the brickwork is peeling off the vaulted ceiling in 2 ton lumps, this is due the structure being 150+ years old added to which is fifty years of neglect, a lack of maintenance and water ingress into the brickwork.

 

Nige H

[antarmike]

English Law recognises "Adverse Possession" known to most of us as "Squatter's rights"

 

If a piece of land has been used by the same person for a 12 year period, and during the whole of that 12 years he was never prevented from using the land, nor was any approach made to him to vacate that land, even though at the start of that 12 years the land may have been owned by somebody else, I becomes his.

 

If a farmer has continuously occupied a portion of track bed for 12 years, without being barred from using it at any time, or without his use having been challenged by the original owner of the land, then he can claim "Adverse Possession" and the land is his to use, own keep sell, do what he wants with.

 

There is on the outskirts of RAF Halton, an Industrial area, comprising Motor engineers, shot blasters, vehicle parts recycling, scrap yards etc, all of which grew up on RAF owned land beside the disused Wendover arm of the Grand Union Canal. Some years ago the RAF made moves to close a road built onto the estate and reclaim the land.

 

It went to court. and having sworn in court that they had been there since 1947, the traders won the day and the RAF lost the land.

 

http://www.landreg.gov.uk/assets/library/documents/lrpg005.pdf

http://www.legalcentre.co.uk/property/guide/adverse-possession-of-land/

 

Slightly different rules aplly to land which has been registered, to unregistered land. registered land occupied under "adverse Possession" seems only to need ten years occupation.

 

A Farmer does not have the right to start to use an abandoned railway track, but if he began that use ten/ twelve years ago and that use has not been challenged, then probably , yes he has gained the right to continue to use it.

Edited November 30, 2010 by antarmike

[utt61]

English Law recognises "Adverse Possession" .... <snip>

 

 

 

I *think* that the law on Adverse Possession changed a decade or so ago so that the claimant now has to be able to show that he/she has made a reasonable attempt to identify and contact the rightful owner before claiming AP; if this cannot be established, then no legal title is established. This was, I believe, done to avoid people using stealth to claim AP on property where the ownership was not actually in doubt. (I may however be wrong, and anyone intending to try an AP claim would be bonkers to do so without proper legal advice).

 

In the old days when a railway was closed the land was usually offered for sale to local farmers etc and generally, if structure-free, sold. Tunnels, and bridges which crossed public rights of way, generally were not sold, and a surprising number of such structures are still owned by British Railways (and yes, I do mean BR) - BR Residuary Ltd - a company set up when the network was privatised specifically to own such redundent assets. It is sometimes possible to buy major structures such as tunnels and viaducts for purely nominal sums (eg £1) but you will get the maintenance liability as well! A major viaduct needs continual maintenance to keep it safe, but the demolition bill could be millions, so no wonder BR®Ltd would like to be shot of as many as possible.

 

If a line was closed post-privatisation, or was considered a strategic route, then the route may be protected. Many former railway routes have been sold to organisations like Sustrans as cycle routes (and this can make life a nightmare for anyone attempting to reopen the route as a railway, as many heritage groups will testify).

[antarmike]

I *think* that the law on Adverse Possession changed a decade or so ago so that the claimant now has to be able to show that he/she has made a reasonable attempt to identify and contact the rightful owner before claiming AP; if this cannot be established, then no legal title is established. This was, I believe, done to avoid people using stealth to claim AP on property where the ownership was not actually in doubt. (I may however be wrong, and anyone intending to try an AP claim would be bonkers to do so without proper legal advice).

 

In the old days when a railway was closed the land was usually offered for sale to local farmers etc and generally, if structure-free, sold. Tunnels, and bridges which crossed public rights of way, generally were not sold, and a surprising number of such structures are still owned by British Railways (and yes, I do mean BR) - BR Residuary Ltd - a company set up when the network was privatised specifically to own such redundent assets. It is sometimes possible to buy major structures such as tunnels and viaducts for purely nominal sums (eg £1) but you will get the maintenance liability as well! A major viaduct needs continual maintenance to keep it safe, but the demolition bill could be millions, so no wonder BR®Ltd would like to be shot of as many as possible.

 

If a line was closed post-privatisation, or was considered a strategic route, then the route may be protected. Many former railway routes have been sold to organisations like Sustrans as cycle routes (and this can make life a nightmare for anyone attempting to reopen the route as a railway, as many heritage groups will testify).

 

The links I have already posted are current and reflect the present situation.

Edited November 30, 2010 by antarmike

[R Cubed]

Great stuff I can now tell my mates they are wrong :shocked:

[LoggyDriver]

I live in Didcot and as everyone would know, this town has been well known for it's role in the Railways.

 

There is a branch line that runs from Didcot to Newbury, part of the Newbury to Southampton Railway. The first part of the line from Didcot Junction is now a local road and cycle/footpath. But as you exit Didcot towards Blewbury the line regains it's original makeup apart from the tracks. Past Blewbury the line is the same now as it was in service apart from the tracks. As it approaches Compton, there is a skip company. They use the rail cutting that runs through the farm the company is based on as a landfill. They dump all the rubbish from the skips into this cutting.

 

Now there is a group that is campaigning to re-open this branch line to passenger and freight traffic. I can't see how they would be able to do this as the cutting is being filled in, but the farmer must obviously have permission to use the old rail bed for this purpose.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didcot,_Newbury_and_Southampton_Railway

[Richard Farrant]

As it approaches Compton, there is a skip company. They use the rail cutting that runs through the farm the company is based on as a landfill. They dump all the rubbish from the skips into this cutting.

 

Now there is a group that is campaigning to re-open this branch line to passenger and freight traffic. I can't see how they would be able to do this as the cutting is being filled in, but the farmer must obviously have permission to use the old rail bed for this purpose.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didcot,_Newbury_and_Southampton_Railway

 

I doubt it would be a problem to remove the landfill rubbish as a similar thing happened in Sussex. The Bluebell Railway wanted to extend their line and a cutting had been used as a refuse tip for years, the railway have permission to reinstigated the line and I believe the rubbish removal is taking place, not kept up with the latest details.

 

Biggest problem is finding another landfill site.

[utt61]

I think that the Bluebell's clearance (Imberhorne cutting?) is actually funded with a grant paid from monies raised through the dreaded Landfill Tax.

 

If so it is about the first evidence of something useful coming from this tax.

[griff66]

plus gen public fundraising plus lott grant?