Marmite!! Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 December 18, 2007 11:20pm POLICE in Bulgaria arrested two Germans and a Bulgarian army officer for stealing a World War II tank and attempting to thieve another. Bulgaria's defence ministry said the first tank disappeared between October and December 13 and is still missing, while the second one only had a few parts stolen from it. Investigators suspect the armoured vehicle or its parts may have been smuggled to Germany. According to the Standard newspaper, the three suspects wanted to sell the Maybach tanks to German collectors. The vehicles had laid half buried since World War II near Bulgaria's southeastern border with Turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Got to admit, this has more style than pinching a packet of biscuits from Woolworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hope it wasn't anything to do with us?? http://www.hmvf.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&Itemid=28 :whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 A picture has been issued from Bulgaria via an expensive news agency (so I can't nick it) and the tanks are actually StuG III's dug in hull down. One is shown in the snap and looks in amazing condition. No doubt the old dollar signs appeared in the suspects eyes and they thought they were on to a winner. Presumably they left an important middle man out of the loop hence their arrest. Or am I being cynical about corruption in those parts? Doug and Dinsdale Piranha would have had no trouble nicking the things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 From the MoD Oracle web site: Officer Tried to Smuggle TankTuesday, December 18, 2007 Source: Ananova A Bulgarian army officer has been arrested after he allegedly tried to smuggle a tank out of the country. Major Alexei Petrov had reportedly stolen the WWll German Panzer IV tank from a military garrison in Elchovo, near the Turkish border. Although worthless to the army the ancient tank is worth a fortune to collectors, especially to far-right extremists who are keen to snap up anything to do with the war. He was caught by secret service agents who had been tracking him for months and who discovered he had already managed to ship another similar tank to the West. He was arrested along with two German accomplices, who it is believed had brokered a deal worth tens of thousands of pounds with war memorabilia collectors. A huge black market in war-time memorabilia exists, fuelled mainly by the neo-Nazis who want to get their hands on anything connected with the Third Reich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Cheers Neil, I'm not sure if these tanks are German remnants or some of the armour the Germans flogged to the Bulgarians. As saiid , the pic issued shows a hull-down StuG III, but the senders had trouble working out it didn't have a turret. The Bulgarians definitely had a few StuGs and I think they had some PzIIIs as well. Whatever happens the story is very interesting because it's obvious to any numpty that eastern europe is a good place to hunt old German stuff. I like the way they always assume the the 'far right' would be clammering to own this old Nazi metal when the truth is wholly more prosaic. It would be interesting to know what the serious money collectors make of all this because I assume they have to handle some very dodgy middle men in these places to get what they want and also that things might be a little unpleasant. Imagine if one of these jokers actually finds an intact Tiger or Panther. i suppose it is highly unlikely. Makes you wonder what they do with old Soviet hardware - probably ignore it - which is a shame. Someone please correct me. GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK NEIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Imagine if one of these jokers actually finds an intact Tiger or Panther. i suppose it is highly unlikely. Makes you wonder what they do with old Soviet hardware - probably ignore it - which is a shame. Someone please correct me. GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK NEIL. Hope they don't dig up the regimental square of any ex-Wehrmacht or Waffen-SS barracks in Germany. According to legend, EVERY British barracks in BAOR during the Cold War had a tunnel system underneath, with a stay-behind supply of Tigers and Panthers that had been bricked up and that two sentries once found the tunnel - one went mad, the other was never seen again. In the 1970s it was made clear to us that no Russian tank was ever scrapped. As they brought out new tanks, they were supplied to the tank regiments. The old ones were passed on to the tank battalions of non-armoured regiments and everything cascaded on down. In 1976 our UNFICYP Intelligence Officer offered a crate to the first patrol to report a sighting of a Turkish Army T34/85. This was always the case until the reduction treaty of the early 90s. Apart from the T72 which was designed as a cheap export model of the T64. Until the Commies needed a new army to send into Afghanistan in 1979. With not enough T64s to go round, they took T72s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardyferret Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Nice to be back from our holiday, went on an archaeological dig in Turkey. Hoping to get the hol snaps and Mrs HF back in time for Chrimbo :whistle: HF :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowtracdave Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 So presumably we have now all become neo Nazis & far right extremists ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Unfortunately, Britain does have that reputation. It is Illegal in Most of Europe to deal in 3rd Reich memorabilia, not in UK. The tomb robbing of artifacts from Great and Second World War is a lucrative black market business. If I carry on I'll get banned :angry: :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hope they don't dig up the regimental square of any ex-Wehrmacht or Waffen-SS barracks in Germany. According to legend, EVERY British barracks in BAOR during the Cold War had a tunnel system underneath, with a stay-behind supply of Tigers and Panthers that had been bricked up and that two sentries once found the tunnel - one went mad, the other was never seen again. I can remember when they excavated one of the parade ground`s in Roberts barracks in Osnabruck, being near the stables the cry went up "German helmets and rifles found" as kids we rushed over the redcaps were trying to seal the area off, slid down into the pit grabbed what ever and ran for it got the bikes and peddled home. My catch was ten helmets stacked one inside the other and a polythene bag of assortments ,buttons, badges, straps etc also had a luger in its holster (well corroded) and the metal work from a rifle. As part of the amnesty next day the two gun bits went back, but the helmets made fantastic cycling attire through the the German streets, followed by much `head shaking`from the local German populace :pfrt: :pfrt: Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Nice to be back from our holiday, went on an archaeological dig in Turkey. Hoping to get the hol snaps and Mrs HF back in time for Chrimbo :whistle: HF :-D Where did you go?! I thought I was the only mudscratcher on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 The famous L'Aleval otherwise known as the German road at St Peters in jersey has a reputation of a 'Hidden treasure' of German kit. Partly true, just after the Occupation ended the then states filled a couple of tunnels with stuff supposedly for future display, then forgot about it. the tunnels were entered by kids in the early 60's and two died. So the whole lot was cleared and dumped and the tunnels sealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I'd love to do some proper battlefield archaeology and have had a glimpse of the real deal recently, but I doubt I'll ever get to play. I've done a bit of fieldwalking on the Somme, but I only snap what I find, because it's usually only the lethal stuff I bump into. Loads of grenades, stokes mortarts and even a toffee apple mortar on my last trip. My son James even managed to stand on a French hand grenade. I admit I''d like to find something safe to bring home, we've brought back the odd shell case and entrenching tool head - but I would be shocked to find personal items and wouldn't be happy bringing them home. Tony B hits the correct note for me. I have nothing but contempt for grave robbers. But they don't care what the likes of me think - profit rules. MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 As posted in other threads have found the occasional item whilst detecting on the WW1 fields (many years ago) I recall whilst walking a trench line in the forest of Verdun came to a small area with the pig tail spikes still in place and on the edge of the trench in a small flattened are was a spoon,fork and the remains of a cup with its handle just siting there with a rusty old water bottle (French) if only they could of talked. One of my favorite places to visit was the trench of bayonet's, but even these were taken by trophy hunters over the years, until they finally built a concrete shelter over them to protect them Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 One of my favorite places to visit was the trench of bayonet's, but even these were taken by trophy hunters over the years, until they finally built a concrete shelter over them to protect them Ashley That sounds interesting Ash - please do tell us more :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 The story as i remember....... was that a section of a French trench was readyin position to `go over the top` when they were caught by a creeping barage which buried them leaving only the end of the rifles and fixed bayonetts exposed. This is how theywere found post war and deemed a monument, but i cant remember when the shelter was built over them to try and protect them from git`s and the elements. Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthecorner Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 This was in the news today, I thought it might be of interest. http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=120845 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 onthecorner Thanks for posting that, no reflection on you but I see accuracy is still not paramount in the mind of journalists then- what the **** is a Maybach Tank then:nut::nut::nut: There were Panzer 4 Stug 3 Jdpz 4 and various Soviet T34 on the bulgianian defence line in question. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthecorner Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 onthecorner Thanks for posting that, no reflection on you but I see accuracy is still not paramount in the mind of journalists then- what the **** is a Maybach Tank then:nut::nut::nut: There were Panzer 4 Stug 3 Jdpz 4 and various Soviet T34 on the bulgianian defence line in question. Steve Sorry, I should have mentioned that that site is infamous for poor editing/translations! Here's the rest of the history from them if it helps. http://www.novinite.com/search_news.php?thequery=Maybach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Thanks for that prompt response novinite is obviously brilliant for unforced errors -the tank shown "from files" is actually a Tiger 2 only about 500 built and unlikely to be one of the tanks buried in the Bulgarian border defence line. There are persistant rumours of Panthers buried as part of the defence lines but as yet no evidence has come to light although some Panthers were used in Post War Bulgarians service and one was burnt out in service -a common problem in Panthers. No German tanks were named after their motors Maybach was the motor manufacturer for most German AFVs -although the Czech ones had there own Praga and Skoda. The problem with stealing and Maybach in the same sentence is the forum has already had thread on a similar matter. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 one was burnt out in service -a common problem in Panthers. Aha, so they had their own "Heinz kocher"! Who was it that came up with the term "Tommy cooker"?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzkpfw-e Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Ah, right. I think it would be a JagdPanzer/Panzerjager IV. One of those was removed from Bulgaria, reputedly going to Germany, prior to the Bulgarians realising that there was some value in the various buried WW2 kit along their borders. Here's a few more pictures of some of the recovered vehicles. http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/esteri/bulgaria-carrarmati/1.html Pictured are a Panzerjager IV L48 Vomag, Panzer IVH/J, a couple of StugIII, a lash-up with a Russian 76mm on a PanzerIV & the last one's of a T34/85 turret still in situ. See the various files on http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Panzers.html for more pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theredkite Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 An old thread I know, but the trial of the guys concerned is over and they got four years: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/8046357/German-tank-theft-pair-on-the-run.html And apparently the tank in question was never found... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
private mw Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 how did they get caught was they fitted with trackers ! :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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