MVT Contacts

[morris c8 fat]

This is going like the time of the E.U/ JAP import war when they banned some cars because the hight of the exhaust from the ground .

[steveo578]

antarmike

Logic says tracked military vehicles, already registered, below 2.55m width that comply with C and U should remain legal, whether or not future policy forbids the registration of similar unregistered examples. (read the disclaimer in my signature!!)

IMO if DLVA say all military tracked vehicles it will probably apply retrospectively - english law does not have the "Grandfather" clauses seen in other common law stautes (ie Canada and U.S.A)

 

(or the use of any vehicle that shows silly blue twat lamps to the front of a vehicle, is illegal because it does not comply with lighting regs)

Many people wonder why "twat lamps" aren't prosecuted - the little LEDs don't count as they are not filament lamps, as low wattage -less than 5w "decorative lights" not interfering with the function of statutory vehicle lights and don't have a total surface area in excess of the parabola of the side lights of the vehicle- try working that out on a rainy winter night - nor are they covered by the emergency vehicle regs as they are not moving/flashing lights nor are they intending to decieve.

 

Steve

[xtreme]

Finaly got my letter from DVLA , It states they cannot register the stormer as it MAY not meet C&U . It also states that MAY have been a mistake made registering previous MV's they have included the persons Name and Number at policy who are dealing with it .

 

I have not yet had a return call from Terry at the MVT . will give until end of weekend and chase again .

 

First I asume they have to use the C&U regs that were in place at the year the vehicle was built . second I dont know of any C&U test . Will DVLA have to start doing there own made up C&U test.

[antarmike]

IMO if DLVA say all military tracked vehicles it will probably apply retrospectively - english law does not have the "Grandfather" clauses seen in other common law stautes (ie Canada and U.S.A)

 

Many people wonder why "twat lamps" aren't prosecuted - the little LEDs don't count as they are not filament lamps, as low wattage -less than 5w "decorative lights" not interfering with the function of statutory vehicle lights and don't have a total surface area in excess of the parabola of the side lights of the vehicle- try working that out on a rainy winter night - nor are they covered by the emergency vehicle regs as they are not moving/flashing lights nor are they intending to decieve.

 

Steve

 

But do they "Resemble" emergency lights?

[steveo578]

antarmike

But do they "Resemble" emergency lights?

 

Personally I don't like to see anything on a civilian car that may be regarded as a blue light, however a 3 to 5mm diameter 10ma 2.5volt none flashing light is pretty difficult to confuse -personally I would prefer to see a white lights. I also think that the whole system of lights on vehicles needs rationalising current vehicle legislation causes more problems than it resolves.

 

Steve

[timbo]

Finaly got my letter from DVLA , It states they cannot register the stormer as it MAY not meet C&U . It also states that MAY have been a mistake made registering previous MV's they have included the persons Name and Number at policy who are dealing with it .

 

I have not yet had a return call from Terry at the MVT . will give until end of weekend and chase again .

 

First I asume they have to use the C&U regs that were in place at the year the vehicle was built . second I dont know of any C&U test . Will DVLA have to start doing there own made up C&U test.

 

Sounds like they don't know what to do with it so are stalling... Hopefully they'll all be made redundant soon anyway so we might see an outbreak of common sense !

[mike65]

we might see an outbreak of common sense !

 

If it happens it will be treated in the same way as foot and mouth, very large bonfires all over the country untill all traces are irradicated:-D

 

Mike

[steveo578]

xtreme First I asume they have to use the C&U regs that were in place at the year the vehicle was built.

Probably C & U current at time of vehicle first registration -not year of construction

 

second I dont know of any C&U test . Will DVLA have to start doing there own made up C&U test.

for prosecuction purposes C&U examination are conducted by police C&U examiners (tape measures are used) and must therefore include civilian testers at commercial vehicle test centres -which is where suspect commercial vehicles are taken after a police C&U examiner permits its movement on a highway to the test centre, or orders it to be transported to a test centre for examination.

 

If you are certain your vehicle is less than the max. specified width it probably wouldn't hurt to enquire whether a commercial vehicle test centre would issue you with a voluntary certificate of compliance to allow you to inform the DLVA it conforms ie not your word for it.

 

Steve

Edited October 3, 2010 by steveo578
spelling

[antarmike]

Probably C & U current at time of vehicle first registration -not year of construction

 

Steve

 

A vehicle is judged by current C and U regs. These contain exemptions for vehicles built before particular dates. The responsibility of every vehicle owner, before taking it out on the road, is to ensure that his vehicle complies with all the C and U regs as they apply on that particular day. At present all vehicles used on the road have to comply either with Road Vehicles (construction and Use) Regulations 1985 ( or current STGO regs)

(likewise current Lighting regs must be adhered to, and again these will state age of vehicle to which they apply.) Currently all vehicles on the road must comply with Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989.

Edited October 2, 2010 by antarmike

[ArtistsRifles]

It's been said before I know but..

It really is time the major organizations representing our hobby started kicking butt at the highest possible level to get an exemption for ex-mil vehicles based on a limited use/mileage basis.

Other wise the way fuel prices look set to rise together with VAT and other forms of taxation that hit us there won't BE an MV movement left in the UK - we'll be priced and legislated off the roads......

[steveo578]

antarmike

A vehicle is judged by current C and U regs. These contain exemptions for vehicles built before particular dates.

That isn't that much different from what I said

Probably C & U current at time of vehicle first registration -not year of construction

If I bring a vehicle in from aboard and register it, it has to conform with at the date of registration not for C&U at the date of construction. A vehicle of earlier registration has to conform at the date of its registration plus any changes of C&U not covered by specific exemptions -an example of this was the fitting of rear seat belt 1987? regulations which were not retrospective -but obviously if they were retrofitted to a car of earlier registration they had to conform to the current regs.

 

Lighting regs. recent amendments allow for vehicles to be fitted as new with high intensity LED indicators and side lights -however to fit the same LED lamps to a vehicle originally fitted with filaments lamps is a breach of C & U until such time as the DOT approves a LED- none filament equivelant which apart from a some commercial & PSV complete clusters I don't think they have as yet -but it's a while since I constulted the regs.

 

and I think we are playing at spliting hairs and that really isn't benefiting the thread.:-D

 

Steve

[xtreme]

Hi Steve . What is avoluntary certificate of compliance is there a reference number for this cert . I own a MOT station and cant find anything on it.

 

The whole system is a farse . if you import a vehicle it needs an IVA unless its over 10 years . My Hummer H1 is a 2000 and I am waiting until xmas to register it as its a bitch to IVA although at xmas 2000 its actually 11 years old dvla say it could have been built on 29/12/2000 yet it has a manufactures build plate they are not interested in .

 

This industry really needs to get there top people onto this As I have seen the dvla change there rules to suit 2 years ago . When importing a vehicle with over 8 seats regulations stated you didnt need SVA . The limousine Industry used this to register limousines. Vosa didnt like limos so complained to the DFT . The Limousine association didnt fight it thinking they wouldnt pass it . Guess what they did . So OK we changed the way we registered and SVA'd them . They didnt like that so they introduced to guidelines in SVA that ONLY applied to Limos Stress analysis needed . Not even Major Manufactures have to produce this when building a new vehicle . THe DVLA/VOSA/DFT will ride rough shot over you if you let them . I am now on a committee for the limousine association and we consult with DFT on all changes . we Have even been on meetings at westminster house with them . I am not saying things are great but they do listen .

[steveo578]

Hi Steve . What is avoluntary certificate of compliance is there a reference number for this cert

 

Hi mate,

 

In short no, what i'm suggesting is that you get in touch with the dept. that test vehicles for compliance (prosecutions) in your local force area and see if you can have your vehicle looked over by a qualified officer/technician for the purposes of compliance -hence the term "voluntary" -you are volunteering the vehicle for examination you have not commited commited an offence.

 

I am suggesting this only as car & comercial mot cannot do it as i don't think there is an authority (though obviously expertise) to attest C & U with regard to dimensions, nor does Single Vehicle Approval Test as it doesn't cover "commercial" vehicles over 5000kg ( I assume your vehicle is beyond that weight) which might have given you a decission with regard to Dims.

 

Steve

[xtreme]

Spoke to dvla policy today and to be fair the guy was very helpfull . His response was that DFT 's opinion was it didnt meet C&U . He has gone back to then asking how they have come to that decision and under what classification can he register it . Dvla also reported it to the police and I have since had a visit by Manpad terroist unit and I am awaiting an interview from special branch . Will just add this is only because of my close proximity to MCR airport. I have had to show deac certs and they have spoken to Mr P at Witams for verification .

 

will keep you posted on outcome

[morris c8 fat]

Will just add this is only because of my close proximity to MCR airport

and you have a tracked Rapier and this is the first visit by plod!

[xtreme]

Was my point as well . they sent helicopter over and spotted stormer HVM . police officer said pilot **** himself. Think they are embarrassed that they have only just found them.

[johnwardle]

If you go on the DVLA website you can download a form V355/1 "Notes about taxation classes" section 8.5 is rather interesting it states;'Road Rollers, There are no restrictions on the construction of a road roller or in the circumstances under which it is used' If you take this literally then you can register anything as a 'Road Roller' and be tax & MOT exempt, the only drawback is that you would need class G (road roller) on your licence

[TooTallMike]

No drawback - the logical conclusion is that once you have re-registered your Ford Escort as a road roller, you can then use it to take the G licence...

 

- MG

[Grasshopper]

Just a thought here- if tracked vehicles do not meet C&U regs, why is there a driving licence for them if they shouldn't be on the road in the first place? Surely some kind of precedent has been set by previous vehicles having seen road use?

 

Also a word on CVRTs, they would be easy to modify lighting-wise to meet C&U regs (if they don't already meet them) by way of attaching removable (at shows) lighting boards. Not sure about the rest of the regs though!

[gritineye]

No drawback - the logical conclusion is that once you have re-registered your Ford Escort as a road roller, you can then use it to take the G licence...

 

- MG

 

Brilliant :D

[N.O.S.]

I think you will find that tracked and track/wheel combination (e.g. Halftracks) vehicles are more than adequately represented in the C+U regulations

[antarmike]

Just a thought here- if tracked vehicles do not meet C&U regs, why is there a driving licence for them if they shouldn't be on the road in the first place? Surely some kind of precedent has been set by previous vehicles having seen road use?

 

Tracked vehicles under 2.55 wide may be able to meet C and U regs. If they do they can be driven on the road.

 

Engineering plant, may be over 2.55m Wide. If a crawler is being operated according to the Use resctrictions placed on Engineering plant, and complies with the Approriate STGO regulations, it can lawfully be driven on the road.

 

Both the above cases require an H Licence.

 

The problem comes with tracked vehicles over 2.55m wide, that are either not Engineering plant (ie they don't comply with STGO "construction" reg or they are not complying with the STGO "Use" regulations. Wide tracked vehicles not complying fully with STGO regs in terms of their design, or the way they are used, are not legally allowed on the road. If they have been used on the road in the past, that use has been illegal, and it sets no precedent.

 

The H licence is for Tracked vehicles under 2.55m Wide, and fully complying with C and U regs, or for wider tracked vehicles that do not comply with C and U but for which a suitable category exists within STGO and they are used in such a way that they also comply with STGO restrictions as to use.

Edited October 6, 2010 by antarmike

[mike65]

Tracked vehicles under 2.55 wide may be able to meet C and U.

 

Engineering plant, may be over 2.55m Wide. If a crawler is being operated according to the Use resctrictions placed on Engineering plant, and complies with the Approriate STGO regulations, it can lawfully be driven on the road.

 

Not wanting to start an argument or anything, and I may well be completely wrong.

But last time I read my copy of the Freight Transport Association Designing foe Deliveries (1998 edition I think) thwe maximum width for a vehicle was 2.5m unless it was a refrigirated vehicle and then 2.55m was the limit.

 

As I said I may be wrong.

 

Mike

[antarmike]

Not wanting to start an argument or anything, and I may well be completely wrong.

But last time I read my copy of the Freight Transport Association Designing foe Deliveries (1998 edition I think) thwe maximum width for a vehicle was 2.5m unless it was a refrigirated vehicle and then 2.55m was the limit.

 

As I said I may be wrong.

 

Mike

 

It used to be the figure you quote, the width limits have been revised upwards to 2.55 for normal vehicles and 2.60m for insulated vehicles( having a minimum wall thickness of 45mm). This new widths allows for two Euro pallets side by side in a standard lorry or trailer body, insulated or not.

[mike65]

It used to be the figure you quote, the width limits have been revised upwards to 2.55 for normal vehicles and 2.60m for insulated vehicles( having a minimum wall thickness of 45mm). This new widths allows for two Euro pallets side by side in a standard lorry or trailer body, insulated or not.

 

Thanks Mike

Will of course have to bear this in mind next time I am trying to check a proposed yard layout.As scraping a vehicle in could become the literal case. Not that we design anything that tight.

 

Mike