Scammell recovery at W

[gritineye]

First thing, who was responsible for the event that led to the need for recovery? Me, I had helped set out some of the sections but had not mentioned at the driver's briefing that this part of the course was optional for big trucks, I had put it in as we had a variety of trucks entered and I thought this would sort out the smaller ones with a size advantage.

 

The section marshal hadn't been told either so all my fault! :red:

 

The Casualty was bellied out with the fuel tank against the bank, and the rear bodywork and mudguard are dug into the same bank. The bent front mudguard had already been jacked off the wheel before recovery commenced.

 

The plan was to winch at an angle to prevent the casualty (see why this becomes an operation?) going further into the next hole, the driver is powering the wheels in order to steer against the winch to protect the fuel tank which is against the bank, this did not work.

 

Winch truck one then repositioned to get a better line, trying to steer against the winch did not work, air powered steering is not the best in this situation, it has to be said.

 

The next plan was to attach winch truck two to pull the casualty straight forward to save the tank and rear mudguard from further damage, and when past the bank the main winch truck would take over and pull it out sideways.

 

For some reason when winch truck two revved his engine and started to winch nothing happened, no idea why though, forgot to ask.

 

As you can see the casualty came out but with further damage to the rear wing.

 

We repaired both front and rear wing the next morning to as good or even better than they where before all this happened, in a very short time, due to sharing the work amongst a top team who hardly had to discuss or speak at all, they where that good! :-D

 

Edited July 28, 2010 by gritineye

[cosrec]

Know it wont probably interest anyone but heres the maths for this recovery

 

Damage resistance 0

 

Gradient Resistance 30 degrees ? = 6.5 tons

 

Rolling resistance Grass bank ? 7 = 1.85 tons

 

Ihave guessed wt of Scammell 13 tons

 

So should move at 8.35 ton say 9 tons allowing for bits rubbing on grass bank.

 

Bit of a suprise for size of vehicle compared to figures for stalwart. All together lot more workman like thought out job or least thats the way it looks on vidio

[gritineye]

Thanks for that cosrec, interesting comparison, the rear wheels were in deep sticky mud hence loss of traction, what you see is all that happened, just a couple of bits of wobbly camera shake and some daft comments removed to protect the utterer from scorn.

[rbrtcrowther]

just out of interest how is damage resistance calculated? Eg, front wheel missing or flat tyres.is there some kind of intteresting maths for this or is it down to experience?

[cosrec]

On wheeled or tracked vehicles if missing or wont rotate for some reason then its classed as damaged

 

Damage resistance=

Wt of vehicle X damaged wheels/tracks divided by total number of wheels/tracks

[rbrtcrowther]

Ok sounds easy but what if the whole front axle is missing? now that is definately damaged i bet every recovery truck has a calculator in the cab. Best to lift or pull it on to wooden skids. Something only a good few years experience helps with no doubt:readbook:

[cosrec]

Thought you were showing a genuine intrested there not trying to have a go. Any way you have answered your own question axle missing two wheels damaged. work it out.

[Richard Farrant]

i bet every recovery truck has a calculator in the cab.

 

 

 

And here is a recovery calculator

 

 

[Markheliops]

Crikey chaps - was that Graham in the mud.

 

Honestly - you Scammell boys should have called the WLF boys over. We would have sorted you out in a jiffy.

[paulob1]

Know it wont probably interest anyone but heres the maths for this recovery

 

Damage resistance 0

 

Gradient Resistance 30 degrees ? = 6.5 tons

 

Rolling resistance Grass bank ? 7 = 1.85 tons

 

Ihave guessed wt of Scammell 13 tons

 

So should move at 8.35 ton say 9 tons allowing for bits rubbing on grass bank.

 

Bit of a suprise for size of vehicle compared to figures for stalwart. All together lot more workman like thought out job or least thats the way it looks on vidio

 

i am aeriously interested, if its a slide rule type device like Richard showed us then its very interesting indeed, these must be very rare as i have neve seen one, IS it possible to do the calculations on paper or are those calcualtions too complex. Do we all need one of these slide rules..I for sure want one as recovery is a big part of my fun...I have used in the past some of the MVT recovery forms that help to give advice....but never heard of the calculations you mention...and no I am not going to call you names or make any snide comments I would genuinely like to understand the information...

[Poptopshed]

There is a very good REME recovery manual with tons of information on recovery and on working out the loads involved. Download on Grahams Militant site. http://www.aecmilitant.co.uk/downloads.html

[gritineye]

Crikey chaps - was that Graham in the mud.

 

Honestly - you Scammell boys should have called the WLF boys over. We would have sorted you out in a jiffy.

 

We where just about to call you Mark...:cellphone:.......then we remembered six wheel drive was required to reach the location...:whistle:

[Markheliops]

We where just about to call you Mark...:cellphone:.......then we remembered six wheel drive was required to reach the location...:whistle:

 

Nah - long enough winch on the WLF to have reached you.

[gritineye]

To pull yourself in? :-D

[rbrtcrowther]

I'm not having a go:red: just wondered how you would calculate the force say between damaged lorry with an axle missing or a damaged lorry with a piece of chassis sticking down into the mud

ie a flat bottomed wreck or something with lumps steel digging inti the mud. Is there a chart for ditterent degrees of damage X weight.

[N.O.S.]

To pull yourself in? :-D

 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::shocking:

[goldfinger R.I.P.]

Great to see the video of the Scammell being winched out, my son Ben was there in his Berliet wrecker and he loved every second of it. He got stuck at the first section and had to go round it so he went back the next night and went straight through to prove he could do it.It seems he inadvertantly knocked the Diff lock lever out with his thigh the first time and he was gutted . I would like to thank all the Scammell boys for making him so welcome,.He grew up with a Scammell Pioneer and now wants an Explorer. Most 19 year olds want a hatchback !

[chambers101]

I was marshalling and marking the score card for the Beliet during the trial. The organistion was pretty poor and most of the marshals wern't briefed on where the actual sections were.

[rbrtcrowther]

What are the rules for the truck trial? the ones i have seen alow you to take shunts round cains and have multiple attemps to climb the impossible whereas landy trialing is non stop and when you fail your done:embarrassed:

[julezee001]

Usually it is far better organised, with good marshaling and a course well laid out with bamboo canes. I believe there was a shortage of canes this year, so old tyres were used in places which are not the easiest thing to see on the ground from a large truck.

 

The only real rule is don't hit the canes as far as I understand, but at the end of the day it is only really a good excuse to have a bit of fun and show off what the trucks are capable of, all usually without doing serious damage, and with many willing helpers should things go wrong.

 

I think the only thing that would make it better (besides slightly better organisation), would be to run it during the day as a proper attraction possibly, and maybe encouraging a few more competitors with other makes of truck.

 

Jules

[gritineye]

The main problem with this site is that it is fine for LRs and such, but to set out a reasonably challenging course for larger vehicles it is far too narrow.

 

All the humps and dips go length-ways and are pretty tame for Explorers, so if a section is to be more than just dodging canes or getting stuck in mud, there has to be a lot shunting and such, in order to take them cross wise, which does not make a section that 'flows' and is satisfying to drive well.

 

It has to be remembered that it is important to keep an Explorer's rear axle square to any incline for obvious reasons, especially down hill, this is a further restriction, as is the fact that they have to be driven home again!

 

There is little room to stack vehicles between sections, so we often find we have two on a section at once, which can be distracting for drivers.

 

Usually a few challenging sections, and a couple of fun ones are set out, with the option to reverse some if there is time. Finding something different from last time can be hard.

 

I agree it would be far better run in the day with a whole day to set out before, but the 'tank' rides would prevent that.

 

Last year some competitors said a couple of sections where too easy, I was persuaded to help again this year so I thought 'I'll show 'em' but the canes had been mislaid so things didn't start too well and much time was lost, the heat and the 'Beltring apathy effect' took hold (of me at least) but we all did our best.

 

At the end of the day it is just a bit of fun, I hope every one enjoyed themselves, any how the second evening is always much more relaxed.

[Poptopshed]

Its a bit of fun that i look forward to each year. The Scammells never fail to impress and the last couple of years we have followed with big Fodens and just used the canes as a guide as we have no hope of following the Scammells due to the size difference and turning circle. It shows the spectators just what the trucks can really do rather than driving over a couple of smooth bumps in the main arena.

Yes this years was a bit disorganized and i think one of the marshals should have got the Berliet pulled out sooner as the failed shunts went on for far to long. :yawn:

 

Long may it continue and thanks to all the people who help out.

 

[gritineye]

Nice to have met you Poptop, I completely missed the big Foden in action :-( , so thanks for the pix.

[cosrec]

Reply to Paulob sorry if this turns out to be a long reply.

First the recovery calculater is some thing i have never heard of and i would like more info or perhaps some more pics of it.

Bit of history when the flegling recovery operaters assosations were try to change the recovery mans image from cowboy to that of proffesional (make your own mind up how well they have done?). It was decided that training was the order of the day. It was looked in to and some of the founders approached the army who had done RD into recovery. One of the things they came away with was a complicated list of calculations that covered all situations.

Over the years our assosiations have simplyfied these to cover i would say 90% of what any one is likley to come across. Now to work for contracts for police forces and lots of other goverment departments you have to have certificates in training and one of requirments is you have a working knowledge. Sounds all very complicated truth exact opposite. We carry all the info on a little card not much bigger than a credit card. Can be all worked out with wet finger on side of dirty truck.

 

WT=Weight of casualty

 

Winch Power Required =

Rolling Resistance+

Damage Resistance+

Gradient Resistance

 

Rolling Resistance=

Smooth Road WT divided by 25

Grass/Gravel WT divided by 7

Beach Shingle WT divided by 3

Sand WT divided by 6

Mud WT divided by 3

Soft Clay WT divided by 2

Bogged to axle WT times 1

Bogged to wheel top WT times 2

Bogged to Rad top WT times 3

 

Damage Resistance=WT times damaged wheels/tracks divided by total no wheels tracks

 

Gradient Resistance (simplyified)

10 to 30 degrees WT divided by 3

30 to 45 degrees Wt divided by 2

Above 45 degrees total WT

 

All above require winch force to be applied parallel to gradient

 

As i had pionted out to me these figures probally wont get you the best seats at the match but sure stop you arriving at the wrong stadium.

 

They oftence throw up some suprising results. Plus if you work them on a vehicle being used to do a recovery You can calculate how much (or suprising how little) you can winch

 

I am also willing to piont out a couple of other pit falls i it helps anyone

[gritineye]

Great to see the video of the Scammell being winched out, my son Ben was there in his Berliet wrecker and he loved every second of it. He got stuck at the first section and had to go round it so he went back the next night and went straight through to prove he could do it.It seems he inadvertantly knocked the Diff lock lever out with his thigh the first time and he was gutted . I would like to thank all the Scammell boys for making him so welcome,.He grew up with a Scammell Pioneer and now wants an Explorer. Most 19 year olds want a hatchback !

 

There you go Dad, just for you, enjoy!

 

 

Glad you enjoyed it Ben, one thing we do need is young uns this hobby, welcome aboard, see ya next time!

Edited July 31, 2010 by gritineye