21BK40 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Hi Y'all, In my recent search for brake parts for my Pig, I located a source of NOS Master cylinders. The one I ordered arrived yesterday, it was packed in it's original grease impregnated paper and coated in preserving grease inside a sealed plastic bag. Included was the operating rod rubber gaitor & clips in a separate bag. The whole thing was in perfect condition & I'm assuming the rubber internals will be servicable. There are a few more available from this source & if the demand is great enough, I am prepared to buy in some more and offer them at £150. I am reasonably certain they also fit Humber 1 Ton's and Ferret's but you will need to change the cover plate over to retain the elevated filler tube for the Ferret. If you want one, let me know ASAP so that I can get in quick and buy a few whist they are still available. Regards to all Doug 21BK40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) Have you confirmed they are made for the correct fluid you are using them for??? put the wrong fluid in & they will be buggered.... it only takes a matter of hours to knacker one made for mineral oil if you stick brake fluid in it.... There are a few more available from this source & if the demand is great enough, I am prepared to buy in some more and offer them at £150 Why not just post the details of the firm?? Edited January 21, 2010 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 Fair comment, I figured that you'd only want one if your current one was beyond repair, I'd probably fit the rubbers from a newer service kit before use anyway - just in case. Just as an experiment, I'll fill the one I bought with brake fluid and leave it to stand for a week to see what happens. Regards Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Hi Y'all,In my recent search for brake parts for my Pig, I located a source of NOS Master cylinders. The one I ordered arrived yesterday, it was packed in it's original grease impregnated paper and coated in preserving grease inside a sealed plastic bag. Included was the operating rod rubber gaitor & clips in a separate bag. The whole thing was in perfect condition & I'm assuming the rubber internals will be servicable. There are a few more available from this source & if the demand is great enough, I am prepared to buy in some more and offer them at £150. I am reasonably certain they also fit Humber 1 Ton's and Ferret's but you will need to change the cover plate over to retain the elevated filler tube for the Ferret. If you want one, let me know ASAP so that I can get in quick and buy a few whist they are still available. Regards to all Doug 21BK40 Doug, does the packaging have a part No, FV number and the original supplying army units details, or is it in Lockheed packaging, the reason i ask is in your quote, highlighted, FV1600 series (i.e. Humber variants) have a very long push rod, which connects direct to the brake pedal, whatever you have sounds different. Can you post a picture of what you have, i may be interested if it does fit my pig, as i am looking to rebuild the majority of braking components in my vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I have to say £150 seems rather pricey considering the rubbers might be many many years old. £50-£60 is often the going rate for NOS, granted the rubbers may be in the same state, but a repair kit with new items is not very expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppypiesdad Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 any chance of some piccy pls Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 Blimey ! maybe I should have kept quiet - I based the price on the fact that a certain well known supplier is asking £250 and thought I'd make a couple of quid for my trouble & to cover postage. Anyway,...I have my Pig unit sitting next to the new one right now, the only difference is that the area around the rear banjo connection has a larger milled flat area and a bleed nipple fitted, all other details are the same as the Pig original. Regards Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 OK chaps, what I will do is to fit the new one to my Pig this w/e (instead of the reconditioned original), fill with brake fluid, leave on test for a week and report back. However, if you can get them for around £60 as Clive suggests, you won't want one anyway - I will come back with the results regardless just for interest sake. To fully answer previous questions, this is a Lockheed packaged item and does not bear a FV number. Regards to all Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 OK chaps, what I will do is to fit the new one to my Pig this w/e (instead of the reconditioned original), fill with brake fluid, leave on test for a week and report back. However, if you can get them for around £60 as Clive suggests, you won't want one anyway - I will come back with the results regardless just for interest sake. To fully answer previous questions, this is a Lockheed packaged item and does not bear a FV number. Regards to all Doug Ferret type below, is it the same type / version as used in the Humber Pig? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lockheed-Master-Cylinder-1-1-2-Austin-Dodge-BMC_W0QQitemZ150406724673QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM?hash=item2304f07c41#ht_886wt_939 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 It certainly looks very similar, the one shown is presumably a Ferret type having the extended filler - wonder if it's NOS or a recently reconditioned one though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Ferret type below, is it the same type / version as used in the Humber Pig? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lockheed-Master-Cylinder-1-1-2-Austin-Dodge-BMC_W0QQitemZ150406724673QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM?hash=item2304f07c41#ht_886wt_939 It certainly looks exactly the same casting, the only difference is the extended filler tube on the one in the picture, on the Pig version there is an alloy plate on the top held down with six screws, and in the centre is a large threaded hole which accepts a union for a pipe, that leads up to the remote brake fluid reservoir next to the driver. This one looks the same, just with a different filler tube screwed into the threaded hole. I will let you know, after mucking around with the two not particularly nice ones i have, i have bought one of these off of e-bay, at worst it would probably entail swapping the plate over from the top of the master cylinder, and maybe moving the blanking plugs/unions around on the rear of the new unit to get it to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 a certain well known supplier is asking £250 Doug This is exactly why a certain well known supplier is never going to get my business! I find part of the appeal of owning an old vehicle is the sense of satisfaction in obtaining something, at a very reasonable cost, i usually keep an eye out for stuff i "Need" i.e. i needed a set of spark plugs to replace the mixed bag i have in the Pig at present, and over a period of four months obtained enough plus spares for £30, i could of bought them at huge cost from the well known suppliers straight away......but where is the fun in that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Fair play, since I paid £90 for mine at what I thought was a bargain price, the only other price guide I had was that quoted by that "certain other supplier", if they are available for £50-£60 then I'm with you all the way, go for them all day long. I'll be a bit more picky in future when I see an apparent bargain to pass on - to be honest, I hadn't needed one until recently and was just glad to find one at all and didn't mind paying £90 as opposed to £250 !! Re- the top plate arrangement for the Ferret, I would think that the plates are all the same and that the extended filler screws in, in place of the plain plug and ditto for the Pig's drilled & tapped plug type fitting. I think I would take on board the comments about the suitability of the rubber parts provided with modern brake fluid & swap them out with a more recent refurb kit just to be sure,total brake failure can be so inconvenient :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 think I would take on board the comments about the suitability of the rubber parts provided with modern brake fluid Not a question of using modern fluids... it using the Correct fluid that matters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul connor Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I bought one around 2 years ago of exactly the same design,I put new seals in to be sure.. it was exactly the same, bleed nipple and slightly taller as this one is. It ran perfect on the Pig. Well I say perfect it moved the leaking issues all over the rest of the braking system:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Ha ! yes I'm sure I'm going to get a similar result - fixing one knackered part just puts more strain on the nearly knackered parts ! I have some new hoses and wheel cylinders at the ready. Back to brake fluids - how have they changed since the 50's,- if the emphasis is on using the correct fluid, is the "correct" fluid still available to suit older seal materials ? If so, I'm guessing you can use the newer seals with both older and newer spec fluids but not vice versa. .......Anyone know enough to explain ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) Back to brake fluids - how have they changed since the 50's,- if the emphasis is on using the correct fluid, is the "correct" fluid still available to suit older seal materials ? If so, I'm guessing you can use the newer seals with both older and newer spec fluids but not vice versa. .......Anyone know enough to explain ? Some of the FV brake seals are designed to be used with certain brake fluids, others with Mireral Oil (Hydraulic Fluid)... put brake fluid in one for Mineral oil & it will cost you a lot of money & will render you brake system dangerous... Not sure of the results of putting mineral oil in one designed for brake fluid but don't think it can be good for it?? If you state what vehicle it is for I'm sure you'll get an answer what to put in it... presuming you have the correct brake parts fitted... Edited January 22, 2010 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Hmm, I have just done some reading on t'internet about fluid compatibility, it's a bit of a minefield and well worth reading the various articles as it gives a lot of insight into the different Dot types and chemical makeups and possible consequences of using incorrect fluids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 This for example is a particularly interesting statement from a Jaguar forum explaining why they wouldn't use silicone fluids... "Seal compatibility is another potential problem. Glycol fluid is designed to swell the rubber seals in various cylinders to a controlled degree. They wouldn't work otherwise. Silicone, however, must rely on additives to swell the seals. The additives work fine with current-technology rubber, but the older seals found in many British applications don't fare so well, often softening and swelling too much." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Normally if mineral oil is required, such as for a CVR(T) master cylinder, then green tags will be fixed to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 That green tag info is handy to know. I have heard various things about Silicone fluid, and i know from direct experience with a friend that raced cars using the stuff, that its not all that its cracked up to be, certainly it has a softer/spongier brake response, which was cured by going back to a standard brake fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Picture of the master cylinder as bought off ebay with the remains of a rather rusty example that I've had knocking about the shed. It's just come out of the parts washer so its as shiny as it ever will be before it meets the tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) The new one shown in your photo looks just like the one I bought recently. With regard to the correct fluid for the Pig, maybe Clive can advise what it says in the Maintainance schedule, unfortunately it's the one thing I dont have a copy of. I did re-read Clive's guide on lubricants and fluids and noted that he referenced a possible suitable pig brake fluid as being; OX-8 H-542 TS 10 145 SAE J 1703 Apr. 1968. Brake fluid for certain hydraulic clutches & most automotive braking systems fitted with cups & seals made from natural rubber & styrene butadiene. From what I have read, this seems to equate to DOT3, maybe someone in the know could comment Edited January 23, 2010 by 21BK40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 The 1976 Servicing Schedule specifies 0X-8 The 1953 Operation & Maintenance Manual specifies 'Lockhead Orange or Lockheed No.5 Fluid' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21BK40 Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 Ah, ok, thank's Clive, is the earlier spec "orange" fluid a mineral fluid (although I know they were generally green in colour) and is the OX-8 compatible with Dot 3 - what do you use in your Pig ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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