The Tiger 131 Appeal 2010

[recymech66]

At Tankfest 2009 a friend of mine, ex-3RTR (Armoured Farmers) had a stand where he sold paintings (originals and prints) and copies of his book and took commissions for new work.

 

He told us all later that he was intially put out that he could have sold any item with a Balkenkreuz many times over and they were in far greater demand than his British Army stuff. Still it convinced him he could go full time and took on the chin the fact that he would have to roll out Tiger and Panther pics in much greater numbers.

 

http://www.malcyart.co.uk/

 

Off topic slightly butI have a couple of Malcy's paintings of Armoured recovery vehicles and wheeled recovery vehicles (British) he produces excellent work and his website is well worth a look for anybody interested in buying some nice artwork of Armoured vehicles, his Chieftains are superb.

[ajmac]

What is the Tiger so in need of? I thought Tigers were quite rugged so long as you didn't push tem too hard, even then 131 had the later version of the V12 engine fitted during restoration. Is it to cover running costs such as Fuel etc or have they got to change something that they didn't rebuild during restoration which has now failed? Back when I used to receive 'tracklink' much of the work was done by the 'friends of the tank museum' is that still the case - oh and is 'tracklink' still printed in black & white?

[ford 369]

Well i hope you do not go to Beltring, because even though i am a German fan, even i find some of the re-enactors, vehicle owners, militaria dealers etc at this event some what "overpowering" in thier portrayal, of military re-enacting (possibly glorification ??) and some of the dealers who ply complete and utter junk as origonal militaria for hundreds/thousands of pounds :nono::mad:

Slightly off thread here sory.

 

Ashley

 

I was told by a British reenactor if you want to suffer you wear British bd ,if you want comfort you wear yank gear and if you want to look smart you wear German,it is one answer I suppose but I still find it atrange so many people want to portray the history of other countries.

Nigel

[Meteor mark 4B]

Agreed re last sentence! I can understand Germans portraying Germans. I'm not a fan of dressing up anyway, but I do look generally military at shows! Odd how threads go off track isn't it?

[agripper]

Does Bovingtons MK1 Centurion run? I dont get the obccession with german armour. I understand an interest but I still think we should look after our own countries heritage first before another. I dont think the German museums would be so interested in restoring and maintaining British armour over there own. I think people sometimes forget that alot of German armour was put together by slave labour .

[steveo578]

As far as I know it doesn't run,

 

I am fairly certain the Centurion Mk1 was a trials vehicle for various experiments (CDL springs to mind) and therefore should have relatively low milage. Consider how much stuff would have nominal milage, the Churchil Mk7 came straight from the manufacturer -never service issued, the Coventry was used as a demonstartor for STT cadres, again probably well maintained (the French managed to keep one going in Paris Garison until 1960 or there abouts -and it wasn't their kit). Possibly the Black Prince would need some work- as it may be the one with the failed transmission, the Tortoise probably was never raced and I doubt the Pershing would be difficult to bring back to life.

 

Virtually anything in the M4 familly that is intact (so the M3 is out) could be a runner at comparatively little effort. Dare I even mention the German stuff, not that I want to give anyone down there the excuse to obsess but the Sdkfz 234/3 was used as a trial vehicle in MVEE for many years and I am pretty sure the Panther and possibly the Jagdpanther were british built and therefore have low millage unless some-one has been taking parts the keep the tiger running. Tiger engine was a Hl230 P30 which is normally a Panther or Tiger 2 engine.

 

Fair dues the two german museums have Comets,one runner and one display -that were restored by Bovington Friends, and the German Army technical institute refurbished a M4C hybrid which was formerly at Meppen.

 

Sadly the negative side of nazi equipment often seems to be forgotten, but it is as well to avoid politics .

 

The Bovington Mk1 is actually a pre-production tank it was (and for all I know still may be) marked P9 T352416 03ZR70 and if it is that vehicle it did not serve as a test vehicle for CDL as I previously said (that was P8) but like P8 is significant as being one of the tanks sent to Germany in 1945 for operation sentry- the Centurion battle trial with G.A.D.

Edited January 20, 2010 by steveo578
addition

[agripper]

Does any one know what is the oldest running Centurion and where is it?:wow:

[Meteor mark 4B]

No. However, back in the late 90s and early 00s I identified about 100 Centurions at least (and variants) in this country, in museums, private hands, and in the case of the BARV, still in service. Perhaps I'll dig out the file.

[steveo578]

Agripper

Does any one know what is the oldest running Centurion

 

Any of those with ZR would be a good place to start, what's the first reg date on yours, the problem with ZR is you can't really go by the number, 00ZR** would not necessarily be older than a 01 or an 06ZR**

 

I think the Eygptian Museum Mk1 was a runner when the Army sold off redundant AFVs in the mid 1980s although considering museum ethos they probably sold the motor off to use in a Nile barge.

[Adrian Barrell]

This is 06ZR25.

[mcspool]

This is 06ZR25.

Whoa!

 

That is one from an entirely different league, isn't it? The extraordinary Mk. IV!

 

H.

Edited January 21, 2010 by mcspool

[Maurice]

Hanno better look a second time at the picture , tracks are a give away! !

[Adrian Barrell]

I know what you meant Hanno! Your command of the English language puts many Brits to shame....

[mcspool]

I know what you meant Hanno! Your command of the English language puts many Brits to shame....

Thank you Adrian. Of course I had the benefit of actually seeing you work on the conversion. You, my friend, are one of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Engineers.

 

For those who do not yet know what Adrian and I are talking about, see this Youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mOoPM4RU7s.

Like Maurice says, the tracks are the give away!

 

[agripper]

Any of those with ZR would be a good place to start, what's the first reg date on yours, the problem with ZR is you can't really go by the number, 00ZR** would not necessarily be older than a 01 or an 06ZR**.

 

The original reg number for mine was T351699 until it was changed to 02 ZR 77 in 1948 when the army abandoned the old form of registrations. I have no exact build date other than it was in contract M14442 of 300 Tanks being MK1's 2's and 3's built between 1944 and 1946 .

[Adrian Barrell]

I have that as a batch of 300 Centurion II and III, T351400 to T351699 built by Vickers making yours the last of that batch.

[steveo578]

T351699

 

T351400-T352199 are the the original registrations for Centurions with T351400 to T351699 alocated (according to paper records) to Centurion II or III, T351700 to T351799 alocated to Centurion I and T351800 to T352199 to I, II, and III (as there are 100 numbers already alocated to Cent I, this later batch can only include Mark Is if the previous was incomplete.

 

Note the T numbers for the prototypes are T352412-17 so it is impossible to age a tank easily by number but I am sure there should be a Registration card for T351699 at Bovington.

 

Production batch numbers were alocated prior to a final decision on production, as normal logic would place Mark II production after Mark I production, although production hold ups, bottle necks and changes could result in the confussed numbering system. Most likely the T351400- alocation was delayed allowing the improved Mark II turret to be produced. Tank numbers can be a nightmare:undecided:

 

Steve

[John Pearson]

To bring this back to topic:

The Tiger 1 now has a later engine, the major differences being how the radiator fans are driven: five options were available to the original restorers:

1 Butcher the later engine and make it resemble the original: NO!

2 Butcher the fan drives (some parts missing) to fit the new engine NO!

3 Fit something that is nothing like right eg hydraulic 432 fans and drive (could do but a bit daft if you are looking towards authenticity)

4 Remanufacture later drive train to fit later engine to fans (best idea but could not afford it)

5 Use modify commercial bits of a similar concept to fit between early fans and later engine.

Original decision was to do 5 but they have not proved up to the job and have broken up. Appeal is intended to allow option 4 to be followed.

 

Next few vehicles to be 'restored' which I am to a greater or lesser extent invoved with:

Valentine IX nearing end of remanufacture and fit of new trackguards and stowage to original pattern, (not someone's imagination in the 1980's to put it on a plinth!)

Crusader III, full strip down rebuild, replacement of hoses, pipes and electrics, recore of radiators.

M14/41 cosmetic, to be got running, (hopefully!)

 

Not a German tank amoungst them!

[AndyFowler]

I look forward to seeing them running at future events John ! Thanks for the update ! :-D

[ajmac]

Appeal is intended to allow option 4 to be followed

That's the kind of info I was after John, thanks a lot. Perhaps I should become a friend again, it has been over ten years now - what is the subscription up to?

[John Pearson]

Sorry Almac, not sure what subscription is. Not that I am too rich, just that it is on Direct Debit.

Fully recommend rejoining, I drive 350 miles return to go. Others drive further! Join in time for Tankfest if you can and come down for the week prior for the best experience. Needless to say, new or re-recruits will not be asked to drive Tiger on their first visit but crewing and commanding vehicles comes round very quick once they get to know you. Similarly, jobs are allocated on the basis of experience and skills. If you do come down (or anyone else reading this post) just seek me out - John Pearson is my real name.

[Big Al]

John

Subscription is £25 per year for friends of the tank museum well woth it.

Alec

[diver99]

How much did the new buildings cost ? :cool2:

 

15 million!

[diver99]

I am curious as to how the museum came up with that figure? Can anyone tell me if they have volunteers working on their vehicles or paid staff? At the National Army Museum in Waiouru, there is a band of Military vehicle enthusiasts that go up there once a month (or something like that) to work on the vehicles. They don't get paid, they just enjoy what they do. They get to play with and work on vehicles that they could not otherwise afford or obtain. The museum pays for parts etc. If Bovington tried, even not very hard, I am sure that they could rustle up a merry band of dedicated enthusiasts with skills in the MV area to do the work for them. Supply tea, biscuits, tools and you're away!! BTW...Converted, 56k quid is about NZ$120,000. Now that would get me ALOT of MV's!!! Or one top notch bedford MW!!!!!

 

good question about how much and where did the costing come from? As to volunteers, there is never a shortage of volunteer applications at the Tank Museum. Unfortunately, a large proportion apply under the impression that they will be trained to drive tracked vehicles that day and be participating in evey event going, when it suits them. Furthermore, it isn't a case of taking on ex-squaddies either. The vehicles are museum exhibits and not just items of kit to be thrashed et al salisbury plain. So a different type of volunteer is needed. And yes, the ugly head of 'elf and safety' is very much alive which does tend be quite important when dealing with gert big chunks of metal, track and public.

But without the volunteer element at the museum, there would be no Tankfest.

Not intended to be a lecture nay rant:nut:

[AlienFTM]

A snippet from Tank Times, From the Editor, October 2010.

 

During 2010 we have exceeded our expectations and raised over £80,000 towards the Tiger Appeal which will mean that, all being well, the big cat will be roaring again next year.