No-Gas Mig Welders

[shopnut]

Anyone out there had experience with no-gas mig welders, are they good or bad?, thinking of buying one of these welders to use in my home garage, as it will only be used now again I think this would be a better option then renting bottle required for a regular mig welder.

Would only be welding 16 to 18 gauge metal.

Thanks in advance.

[fv1609]

I know the purists & the skilled welders will tut-tut at no-gas MIGs. But I am not a skilled welder & only weld from time to time.

 

So put simply I think it is brilliant.

 

Some years ago I had a go at MIG. I soon kept running out of gas. So I hired a medium sized cylinder from BOC. There was the cost of regulator, the gas of course & the annual rental even if you did no welding that year.

 

In addition to that I could never really weld decently. Not only is there the choice of wire speed & current, but there was rate of gas flow & whether I am holding it at the correct distance for the gas to cover the weld.

 

With the cored wire & gasless, then the last two parameters are removed. No worry about running out of gas. Because if you run out of wire you can have a spare spool, but a BOC gas cylinder you don't want to pay the rental on a spare & if you run out over the weekend that's tough.

 

I know cored wire costs a little bit more & the weld is not so clean initially as a traditional MIG weld as there is the flux to wire brush off afterwards. But from being unable to MIG & selling the stuff off because I was so hopeless at welding using gasless & making OKish welds is a quantum leap forwards.

 

For years of relying on stick electric or gas/brazing to be able to produce MIG welds is wonderful.

 

I would thoroughly recommend this. I chose it as it seemed best value for money at the maximum current my mains could deliver (15A). This was because not only did I want to weld thin stuff but I wanted to weld sections of the Shorland turret which is 8.5mm & joined it up very adequately. I think worth choosing something with highest capacity as in the future you may find other things to weld that are thicker.

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/mig160en-turbo-no-gas-mig-welder/path/dual-purpose-and-inno-gasin-mig-welders

 

If for any reason at sometime in the future you want to use gas then you can use this, although for reasons I don't understand you have to reverse the polarity of the wires.

Edited November 19, 2009 by fv1609

[fv1609]

This is my first attempt with that gasless MIG. I had to remake all the turret fittings on the roof & the sidewalls of the turrent had large sections that had to be replaced. I know its not brilliant but it was the first job with the MIG & it is adequate at least.

 

[fv1609]

This is what it was like before I started.

 

 

[Willyslancs]

looks well mate .......

[shopnut]

Many thanks for the reply, looks like I will try one of these welders, probaly go for a less powerful option, as I already own a stick welder and not so sure if my home electrical system will have the power.

It will only be used for welding sheet metal on a GMC CCKW cab I am restoring.

Will let you know how I get on, once I have purchased a welder.

[Stormin]

Big advantage of no-gas migs with the flux cored wire is you can weld outside in the breeze and not worry about the shielding gas blowing away.

 

If you only weld very occasionally then even with the high cost of the wire it may work out more economical than renting gas bottles. Most people myself included seem to find rent free gas bottles and cheap refills rather than going to BOC or Air products. Although BOC do seem to have come up with DIY friendly offers recently.

 

Get the dual mig set, clarkes are well regarded and you shouldn't go too far wrong if you change your mind, start using it a lot more or come across some cheap gas.

 

See here for more info:-

 

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

[berna2vm]

Go gas mig welding, dont forget that you can use pubgas (CO2) in lieu of argoshield or pure argon etc. It does not weld as cleanly but is still of sufficient quality for professional repairs. I have used gasless but consider it as reserve or emergency in application.

The gasless wire is much more expensive, worth taking into consideration.

[GlosterMB]

I made my bustle rack for the jeep using a gas mig welder, and the results were quite satisfactory for a machinist operating a welder.

However, if you really want to improve your amatuer welding skills, get yourself an auto-darkening face shield. It enables you to start and finish where you intend to and virtually erases the chance of arc-eye. Yes, they're expensive but the results speak for themselves.

JMTPW

[Stormin]

However, if you really want to improve your amatuer welding skills, get yourself an auto-darkening face shield. It enables you to start and finish where you intend to and virtually erases the chance of arc-eye. Yes, they're expensive but the results speak for themselves.

JMTPW

 

Not even that dear now. You can get a reputable make one for around £40, I've got a parweld. Variable shade from 9-14 so suitbale for tig to heay arc welding.

Cheap import ones are around £25 of Ebay if you're prepared to risk them.

[fesm_ndt]

No-Gas Mig is called FCAW (Flux Cored Arc Welding) in most the world. In the UK they often call it MAG (Metal Active Gas).

 

Anyway good stuff, good penetration. Your get slag of course and the fumes are reputed to be the worst but is favoured due to it's high deposition rates.

[Glynn]

I use gas but every year a nasty boc bill comes through the door about £70 and i still have to pay for refill when it runs out. Never tried gasless but what is said on here i think i will try it. And definately get an auto helmet brilliant and getting cheaper all the time.

[fesm_ndt]

I believe the wire is pricier but to give and idea of it's qualities, we used a large percentage of FCAW welding the steel columns together on Taipei's TFCC 101 bilding (now the worlds second tallest building, but at least not bankrupt like the new one). The column where 100mm thick but you can run passes quite quickly.

[robin craig]

Frankly, as a welder by trade who has held numerous welding tickets in various positions in various processes in various metals from aluminum through stainless and mild steel, I have a simple answer.

 

DON'T

 

The MIG (metal inert gas) welder is to metal working in untrained hands what the hot melt glue gun is to the woodworking trade, Those people who can find the "on" switch can bubble gum metal together with no certainty of a good joint.

 

A wire feeder with a power source which is what you are asking about is about the same.

 

The age old art, and it is one, of arc welding or stick as some call it, is with the correct electrode selection and knowledge a very versatile tool and next to oxy acetylene cutting a must as far as workshop kit.

 

If you must buy a welder with a wire feeder get one with a shielding gas.

 

Flux cored wire is great for big production jobs.

 

Considering the thickness of the materials except in thin tin work stick welding is far superior. Even then with say 7014 downhand thin material can be welded with good precision and little distortion.

 

Without a shielding gas you will have more clean up as the spatter will be greater even though you will be tempted to use all kinds of potions to spray around the joint prior to welding that will abate some spatter.

 

Also consider what process was used to make the original item.

 

I would highly suggest anyone wanting to weld to take the time and either use a community college night course or pay someone to teach you one on one.

 

Feel free to turn this into a welding thread and ask questions. What I can not answer I will point you in the right direction.

 

Remember, a good welder can weld just about anything except the crack of dawn and a broken heart, and if you have seen . . . . . . . you will understand why.

 

rgds

 

Robin

[fesm_ndt]

I tend to agree with Robin that unless you know what you are doing dont go fancy and dont weld structural items. Also that welding is or perhaps better was a trade with a high degree of skill.

 

Welding is like cooking a cake, ie you need a recipie which gets followed eg how many volts, heat input etc. If the recipie is followed the material will have the material properies you want. If you dont get the recipie correct the weld can look pretty but the weld will fail without warning. you want.

[fesm_ndt]

On my phone responding as waiting in a carpark.

 

I wouldn't be to fussed about original processes as most vehicle welding is by far the worse welding I have ever seen and most factory welding would not pass an examination. On my pinz I am forever repairing shoddy welding and my landrover was the same. Of inteerest the soviets invented stick and saw welding hence they could produce tanks quicker whilst everyone else at that point were still riveting. Funny to look at the old welded tanks at duxford. A welding fourm could be useful, i touched on this in the inspection thread