mark m uk Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I have been following an auction this last week that has taken place in Germany. I was attracted to the auction by a schwimmwagen - but it made too much money for me, never mind. The auction also had all types of militaria, and as I also have a small collection of steel helmets I kept my eye on a few of the 'desirable' items. Here is an item from the auction. A WW2 U.S. Para helmet. Marked up as a helmet of the 502nd Parachute infantry regiment, 101st Airborne Division. OK, sitting down ?...............it made a hammer price of 46,000.00 Euros, the house fee was 23%, so this helmet cost the lucky winner - approx £55,000.00 Now here is the rub,................it is a fake. The liner is a post war Korean war liner, the shell has been altered. Most likely the para D bales have been added to a mid war front seam helmet with swivels. Certainly the chinstrap is wrong. The painted heart is too large - I could go on and on, but I am convinced it is a fake. Some poor schmuck has parted with a lot of dough for somthing you can buy all day long for a oner. Regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 how much would a genuine one go for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Normally? Around $1000 - $ 2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 A fool and his money....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willyslancs Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 more money than sense obviously.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I call it the "Moron guarantee". On ebay there are so many potential buyers that you're guaranteed to get a lot of money for a bogus object and story to go with it. Also some objects for some people automatically reduces the IQ by 50 points when on sale. A bit with online scams, offer the chance to get a lot of $$$$ and presto , there goes the IQ in freefall. The liner is probably NO fake, just a Korean war one as you state. Not nessesarily a modern refurb. The pic of the shell is too small to see. A large heart would be correct for a d-day used shell, but the straps should have the extra tab with stud. The lot.nr. could confirm its a fake. Have you got a link to the auction site? By the way, I have about 100 front seams... No Division marked ones though (except for the ones I make myself). Even if it were real than its a ridiculous amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I have been following an auction this last week that has taken place in Germany. I was attracted to the auction by a schwimmwagen - but it made too much money for me, never mind. The auction also had all types of militaria, and as I also have a small collection of steel helmets I kept my eye on a few of the 'desirable' items. Here is an item from the auction. A WW2 U.S. Para helmet. Marked up as a helmet of the 502nd Parachute infantry regiment, 101st Airborne Division. OK, sitting down ?...............it made a hammer price of 46,000.00 Euros, the house fee was 23%, so this helmet cost the lucky winner - approx £55,000.00 Now here is the rub,................it is a fake. The liner is a post war Korean war liner, the shell has been altered. Most likely the para D bales have been added to a mid war front seam helmet with swivels. Certainly the chinstrap is wrong. The painted heart is too large - I could go on and on, but I am convinced it is a fake. Some poor schmuck has parted with a lot of dough for somthing you can buy all day long for a oner. Regards Mark Caveat Emptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 The golden rule seems to be if you're gonna buy a helmet... ...take Enigma with you he knows his s**t! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) My heart bleeds for the poor guy!! As If!! If he has money to spare let him spend it as he likes. It all puts money back into the economy, and helps get the world out of its recession, and he can obviously afford it, so let him get on with it in peace....I hope I can sell him something one day!! Edited November 19, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 My heart bleeds for the poor guy!! As If!! If he has money to spare let him spend it as he likes. It all puts maoney back into the economy, and helps get the world out of its recession, and he can obviously afford it, so let him get on with it in peace....I hope I can sell him something one day!! Yup one born every minute I've got the original copy of the bible signed by Jesus and God... wonder if he wants to buy that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Yup one born every minute There must have been at least two, so unlikely to have have been a misplaced decimal point. On a property auction TV program I saw, they showed two women business partners, sat together eyes riveted on the auctioneer, bidding against each other, strangely they won the house at quite a high price. The auctioneer was deadpan throughout, priceless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 On a property auction TV program I saw, they showed two women business partners, sat together eyes riveted on the auctioneer, bidding against each other, strangely they won the house at quite a high price. Yes I remember seeing that, amazing! I recently watched on ebay, an unposted 1925 picture postcard in the last few moments go shooting up to £122. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark m uk Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Here is a link as requested to the auction site that has the helmet. http://www.hermann-historica.de/gb/index_58_auktion_nov.htm Look under 'USA' then about page three of the catalouge. I agree enigma, the straps are wrong - there is no male popper on the extended strap to secure to the liner - sure, some M1, FB's were used with para liners but this has the 'D' bales, and none were made without poppers on the straps. Plus those bales should be stainless and the ones in the auctioned helmet are rusty. I find it amazing that anyone that has 55k to spend on a helmet is A) to dim to know what he is buying, and B) to dim to ask opinions. Regards Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Start clearing out the tat lads!! We've obviously got a right one there! :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willyslancs Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Yup one born every minute I've got the original copy of the bible signed by Jesus and God... wonder if he wants to buy that? what you mean you got the original? wish i had not spent all that money on my original one now !!!!! lol ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Yes I remember seeing that, amazing! I recently watched on ebay, an unposted 1925 picture postcard in the last few moments go shooting up to £122. What was it a picture of? The most expensive postcard that i have seen was of a WW1 Ambulance which went for over £600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les freathy Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I will certainly have a dig out at some items i have, bet i dont catch one like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Here is a link as requested to the auction site that has the helmet. http://www.hermann-historica.de/gb/index_58_auktion_nov.htm Look under 'USA' then about page three of the catalouge. I agree enigma, the straps are wrong - there is no male popper on the extended strap to secure to the liner - sure, some M1, FB's were used with para liners but this has the 'D' bales, and none were made without poppers on the straps. Plus those bales should be stainless and the ones in the auctioned helmet are rusty. I find it amazing that anyone that has 55k to spend on a helmet is A) to dim to know what he is buying, and B) to dim to ask opinions. Regards Mark. As far as I know where D-bales not stainless and rusted, confimed by my helmet books. Straps are from a standard M1. The steel helmet doesn't look to bad. I even see a d-bale repair with copper solder. That's good. Marking looks ok in size and shape. However there is no mention of the lot.nr. which could prove its a fake when its to high. So my conclusion. Liner; defo POST WAR...why? its got green a-yokes with Inland style buckle. Offcourse the webbing is dark green, postwar. Iron a-washers with brass rivets. So, the steel shell; It could be a genuine d-bale with original markings. Original straps are gone. But if it is original its still a ridiculous amount to pay...:n00b: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 The 101st stuff is just so nuts. So many people have been ripped of like this. One guy bought another '101st' helmet that went for 1000's and 1000's as it had the troopers name in it. ...the sad thing was that the name of the guy in the helmet, was still alive, and still had HIS helmet!! Blame Hollywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 The 101st stuff is just so nuts. So many people have been ripped of like this. One guy bought another '101st' helmet that went for 1000's and 1000's as it had the troopers name in it. ...the sad thing was that the name of the guy in the helmet, was still alive, and still had HIS helmet!! Blame Hollywood. To be honest the blame also falls on the collecter. I see enough fake helmets being bought for top$$$. Example on epay Belgium. The guy offered a 2nd div helmet, nice story etc. I literally regognised it withing 2 seconds as a Easy Green (known restorer). The helmet was sold for 1100 euro's. I can't pity the buyer. If he had joined a militaria forum and asked he would have known within a day it was a "fake".... Groundrule with div. marked helmets; 99 procent are fakes or restored ones. Look. look again, ask for better pics, ask advice and then take the calculated risk to buy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford 369 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 on aproper para liner shouldnt the A frames for the chinstrap be fitted under the suspension mountings A washers rather than being fixed seperately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 on aproper para liner shouldnt the A frames for the chinstrap be fitted under the suspension mountings A washers rather than being fixed seperately? Late war Westinghouse jumpliners had them fixed seperately. All earlier ones were riveted under the webbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hi all, for years faking was prevalent in the German militaria market (to include helmets on a vast scale :shocked: ) but over the last 15 or so years has caused many a headache in the allied area of militaria. But as stated many still buy these items with no knowledge on the subject and these days research, visual and handling of known genuine items (difficult i know) is a definite must and with certain types of militaria a keen sense of smell !.....you cant fake 60 year old smell. One way to detect early re-pro painted helmets was to sniff the paint for freshness) got me plenty of funny looks :cool2: but often saved me pennies for genuine items. Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willyslancs Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 it pays to have experience ,cant put real value on knowledge ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford 369 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 the ironic thing about this coming up now is that on monday this week I recieved through the post a us para helmet that I bought via another forum I am on Front seam swivel bail shell Firestone liner para A frame straps leather chin cup incorrect standard stap(no extensions with press studs) identical unit markings to the one in the auction but one major difference £ 45.00 plus £5 post perhaps I should enter it in the next German auction Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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