question British vehicle markings for D Day

[Ian L]

I need some ideas of vehicle markings for my Austin K5 on D Day ?

 

I've found an authentic door number L4891621 but need to know the size ?

 

Star on the doors, size ?

 

Division or other markings ? if you could post some ideas with size if possible so 'Axholme Signs' can copy them as he is in the process of making then for me. cheers

[guy66]

Beach group Ian, and star on the cargo body. ;-)

 

 

Guy

[Alex van de Wetering]

And a huge star on top of the canvas!

 

 

source: http://www.wwiiarchives.net/servlet/action/gallery/0

Edited May 7, 2014 by Alex van de Wetering

[Alex van de Wetering]

Beach group Ian, and star on the cargo body. ;-)

 

A beach group K5 and RN QL together in Normandy 2014....that would be a sight to see! :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

 

source: http://images.wararchives.net/

 

 

 

Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections

 

 

 

source: http://www.navsource.org/

 

 

source: http://www.combinedops.com/

 

 

I am sure you could get a better copy of the IWM picture in order to determine correct markings.

 

 

Alex

 

p.s. the beach group trucks didn't seem to have the huge star on the canvas....so disregard my previous post if you are going for a beach group livery (pic does seem to show a beach group K5 in the right foreground!)

Edited May 7, 2014 by Alex van de Wetering

[Ian L]

Beach group Ian, and star on the cargo body. ;-)

 

 

Guy

 

Hi Guy I keeping thinking about 'beach group' markings but dont have the time to mask and paint free hand, could you find that photo again on the internet that Marnick found and post it on the forum and then I can get Axholme signs to copy it as a stencil. Cheers Ian

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2014 by Ian L

[Ian L]

A beach group K5 and RN QL together in Normandy 2014....that would be a sight to see! :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

 

source: http://images.wararchives.net/

 

 

 

Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections

 

 

 

I'm aurce: http://www.navsource.org/

 

 

source: http://www.combinedops.com/

 

 

I am sure you could get a better copy of the IWM picture in order to determine correct markings.

 

 

Alex

 

p.s. the beach group trucks didn't seem to have the huge star on the canvas....so disregard my previous post if you are going for a beach group livery (pic does seem to show a beach group K5 in the right foreground!)

 

Hi Alex your both right about beach group so long as I can get a photo and stencil can be made in time, do you know what the other markings are on the bottom of both front wings ? I cant explode the photos enough as I'm working on an I phone at the moment.

Also why are there no door numbers ? Did they remove them for D day ?

[Ian L]

Ok found them,

Edited May 8, 2014 by Ian L

[Ian L]

Just found this.

All softskin vehicles were progressively marked as the three stages of waterproofing were completed on them with 3”X1” strips painted on the offside front mudguard behind the wing lamp – Blue for stage A; Yellow for stage B and Red for stage C. Alternatively a White strip only for vehicles which could not be waterproofed

 

Extract from 56 Inf. Admin Order

"Waterproofing – B Vehs

Units will carry out stage ‘A’ of waterproofing in unit lines or in Concentration Areas not more than 200 miles from Marshalling areas ……..When the REME offr supervising waterproofing is satisfied that stage ‘A’ is carried out efficiently he will have a blue mark

3” X 1” painted on the offside front mudguard behind the wing lamp"

 

 

Extract from “Detailed procedure for control of movements - Overlord”

"VEHICLES NOT WATERPROOFED

Certain vehicles are not capable of being waterproofed, and will be so indicated on the staff tables. They will also be marked with a WHITE strip 3" x 1" painted on the off-side wing behind the wing lamp, in lieu of the BLUE, YELLOW and RED colour bars normally used to denote completion of the three stages of waterproofing"

Edited May 8, 2014 by Ian L

[Alex van de Wetering]

Also why are there no door numbers ? Did they remove them for D day ?

 

Maybe only on the drivers door?

 

 

Will check if I can find out more tonight. I think I have seen another pic of one or more "Beach" K5's on a Rhino Ferry which shows the right side of the truck.

 

The IWM pic....I think the right hand fender shows those wading markings and the left hand fender probably has info on the LST etc.

 

 

Alex

[simon king]

Maybe only on the drivers door?

 

 

 

Will check if I can find out more tonight. I think I have seen another pic of one or more "Beach" K5's on a Rhino Ferry which shows the right side of the truck.

 

The IWM pic....I think the right hand fender shows those wading markings and the left hand fender probably has info on the LST etc.

 

 

Alex

 

Regulations from about 43 only required census numbers on Offside and rear of vehicles - presumably to save paint and time.

 

The mobilisation info will include the unit's 5-digit code as well as the ship's identity and (i guess) loading order. Some of those unit numbers are listed in V4 of Warpaint but I think there are complete lists in circulation or perhaps available for reference from Bovingdon.

 

You can often see these 5 digit codes on the front and back of vehicles - either tied into the mobilisation info at the front or separately O/S front and N/S rear (in accordance with seemingly often ignored invasion security arrangements which required the removal of Divisional signs and AoS markings for D-Day) on top of three coloured bars which related to the last two digits of the 5 digit code.

[Ian L]

Maybe only on the drivers door?

 

 

Will check if I can find out more tonight. I think I have seen another pic of one or more "Beach" K5's on a Rhino Ferry which shows the right side of the truck.

 

The IWM pic....I think the right hand fender shows those wading markings and the left hand fender probably has info on the LST etc.

 

 

Alex

 

Hi Alex the L/H wing LST markings would be interesting if you can find a photo good enough for Tony Pearson to copy, also is that word 'BEACH' on the L/H side of the tail gate ?

[guy66]

Yes Ian , on two of the trucks there are markings "beach" on the rear of the lorry.

 

Guy:goodidea::goodidea:

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Alex the L/H wing LST markings would be interesting if you can find a photo good enough for Tony Pearson to copy, also is that word 'BEACH' on the L/H side of the tail gate ?

 

Ian, I am afraid I can't help you with the correct lettering of the LH wing. Attached is a scan of the same IWM picture from a Heimdal publication; you just can't read the lettering, but I recon if you would order a print from IWM, or just an enlargement of part of the picture, that would give you all the info for the proper markings.

Picture number from IWM is: H 38976. Link: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205219264

[Alex van de Wetering]

Attached is a scan of a picture from another Heimdal publication. The original source seems to be IWM again, but I haven't been able to track down the picture number.

I presume these trucks are "Beach group", but I am not sure. It shows the right hand door did have the census number, as Simon described.

 

p.s. Scans only for discussion purposes, source: IWM.org.uk

[Alex van de Wetering]

Here is an enlargement of the LST picture, showing "BEACH" on the tailgate of a Fordson (?), as Guy confirmed.

Picture from "National Archives" only for discussion purposes.

 

 

From what I have been able to see:

Tail-gate...."Beach group emblem" on left (passenger side), word "BEACH" in stencil lettering just right of Beach group emblem. "Census number" in centre of tail-gate. and presumebly "AoS 67" on right hand (no idea about colour???).

 

Left side of truck (passenger side)...."star" in second block of rear body, sometimes second "star" on left door, "free-hand number" on left door

 

Right side of truck...same as left, but with "census number" on door.

 

Top...."star with closed circle" on cab roof, right hand side

 

Front panel...."Beach group emblem" to the left of radiator (passenger side) (location differs)....."Bridge plate with 9" on right hand of radiator....."AoS 67" on Right hand fender.....presumebly "painted (waterproofing) bars" on right hand fender....."LST info" on Left hand fender (LST 361?)....."Shipping stencils"; Length, Width, Height, Weight on a form(?) behind windscreen.

 

The Windscreen also seems to have some additional forms or stickers, but I have no idea what these are.

 

I presume the chalked number on the door is a number relating to the total number of vehicles on board the LST, while the lettering on the fender describes LST and maybe a number relating to the amount of Beach group vehicles from this section(?).

 

I know time is limited before Normandy, but I wouldn't be surprised if British Pathe or IWM have videos displaying Beach group K5's. You could always paint those last numbers on your Austin on June 6th....it seems vehicle movement around Calvados that day will be difficult without the proper sticker, so that could give you a few hours for masking and painting:-D

 

Alex

Edited May 13, 2014 by Alex van de Wetering

[Ian L]

Here is an enlargement of the LST picture, showing "BEACH" on the tailgate of a Fordson (?), as Guy confirmed.

Picture from "National Archives" only for discussion purposes.

 

 

From what I have been able to see:

Tail-gate...."Beach group emblem" on left (passenger side), word "BEACH" in stencil lettering just right of Beach group emblem. "Census number" in centre of tail-gate. and presumebly "AoS 67" on right hand (no idea about colour???).

 

Left side of truck (passenger side)...."star" in second block of rear body, sometimes second "star" on left door, "free-hand number" on left door

 

Right side of truck...same as left, but with "census number" on door.

 

Top...."star with closed circle" on cab roof, right hand side

 

Front panel...."Beach group emblem" to the left of radiator (passenger side) (location differs)....."Bridge plate with 9" on right hand of radiator....."AoS 67" on Right hand fender.....presumebly "painted (waterproofing) bars" on right hand fender....."LST info" on Left hand fender (LST 361?)....."Shipping stencils"; Length, Width, Height, Weight on a form(?) behind windscreen.

 

The Windscreen also seems to have some additional forms or stickers, but I have no idea what these are.

 

I presume the chalked number on the door is a number relating to the total number of vehicles on board the LST, while the lettering on the fender describes LST and maybe a number relating to the amount of Beach group vehicles from this section(?).

 

I know time is limited before Normandy, but I wouldn't be surprised if British Pathe or IWM have videos displaying Beach group K5's. You could always paint those last numbers on your Austin on June 6th....it seems vehicle movement around Calvados that day will be difficult without the proper sticker, so that could give you a few hours for masking and painting:-D

 

Alex

 

Thanks for all your help Alex, Tony has almost finished making the proofs from the info you have provided and my guess work on sizes.

If the weather holds we should be able to finish the prep work this coming weekend and get her in paint, fingers crossed as we are running out of time.

Thanks again & hope to meet up at Normandy. Ian

[paul_bish]

Here is an enlargement of the LST picture, showing "BEACH" on the tailgate of a Fordson (?), as Guy confirmed.

Picture from "National Archives" only for discussion purposes.

 

 

From what I have been able to see:

Tail-gate...."Beach group emblem" on left (passenger side), word "BEACH" in stencil lettering just right of Beach group emblem. "Census number" in centre of tail-gate. and presumebly "AoS 67" on right hand (no idea about colour???).

 

Left side of truck (passenger side)...."star" in second block of rear body, sometimes second "star" on left door, "free-hand number" on left door

 

Right side of truck...same as left, but with "census number" on door.

 

Top...."star with closed circle" on cab roof, right hand side

 

Front panel...."Beach group emblem" to the left of radiator (passenger side) (location differs)....."Bridge plate with 9" on right hand of radiator....."AoS 67" on Right hand fender.....presumebly "painted (waterproofing) bars" on right hand fender....."LST info" on Left hand fender (LST 361?)....."Shipping stencils"; Length, Width, Height, Weight on a form(?) behind windscreen.

 

The Windscreen also seems to have some additional forms or stickers, but I have no idea what these are.

 

I presume the chalked number on the door is a number relating to the total number of vehicles on board the LST, while the lettering on the fender describes LST and maybe a number relating to the amount of Beach group vehicles from this section(?).

 

I know time is limited before Normandy, but I wouldn't be surprised if British Pathe or IWM have videos displaying Beach group K5's. You could always paint those last numbers on your Austin on June 6th....it seems vehicle movement around Calvados that day will be difficult without the proper sticker, so that could give you a few hours for masking and painting:-D

 

Alex

 

The form is described in the Warpaint series by Dick Taylor, will dig it out later and transcribe here

[Alex van de Wetering]

Ian, glad I could be of help.

 

Thanks again & hope to meet up at Normandy. Ian

 

Same here and would love to see what the K5 looks like with the new markings.

 

Alex

[paul_bish]

the card in the window would read;

 

 

 

 

VEHICLE WEIGHT AND DIMENSION CARD AMRY FORM W2028

WT. TONS. CWTS.

HT.

LTH.

WTH.

[lssah2025]

 

Awesome name for a tank "Virgin", I wonder if it was penetrated by any German's?

[Ian L]

the card in the window would read;

 

 

 

 

VEHICLE WEIGHT AND DIMENSION CARD AMRY FORM W2028

WT. TONS. CWTS.

HT.

LTH.

WTH.

 

Cheers Paul, might be a bit late to get that stencil done before Normandy but I will speak to Tony about it.

[Ian L]

A beach group K5 and RN QL together in Normandy 2014....that would be a sight to see! :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

 

source: http://images.wararchives.net/

 

 

 

Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections

 

 

 

source: http://www.navsource.org/

 

 

source: http://www.combinedops.com/

 

Hi Alex I think you might get your wish of a Beach group K5 next to a RN QL as Guy is on the same site as us, K5 was paint on Sunday and stencils should be applied by the weekend.

Still got to fit 5 new tyres, repair/fit the copula, make the gas plate & give it a test run as its been off the road since W&P last year.:drive:

Shes not a pretty truck as anyone whos seen her close up will vouch but after 4 weeks tidying she stands up to the 10' test ok.

[guy66]

Hello Ian great to have it as a beach group truck, if you see pictures and newsreels about the first day's after D-day most of the 4 ton general service trucks where Austin K5's!

Looking forward to have a spin in are lorry's in Normandy. I still have some work to do on the bikes and also a bit of maintenance on the QL.

 

Guy

[Tony B]

Ian, when did they ever look pretty? Military painting was paint on Monday, stencils Tuesday, on the boat Wednesday!

[paul_bish]

Cheers Paul, might be a bit late to get that stencil done before Normandy but I will speak to Tony about it.

 

No problem, it was on card in the window so you could print and mount on board

 

I can knock up a graphic to print if you want, just say as I could have one in my QLR

Edited May 20, 2014 by paul_bish