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ruxy

DO 17 raising

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A Swedish DC3/C47 was shot down by the Soviet union June 13 1952, while doing radio reconnaissance. The plane went down and it wasn't until June 2003 that the plane was found and it was raised, using a special platform, in 2004.

 

Today it is displayed, as found on the sea floor, at Flygvapenmuseum in Linköping. It's a chilling testament to what happened during the Cold War.

 

DC3-5051.jpg

 

The Dornier can be displayed in many different ways. Restoring it and displaying in on its wheels is just one way.

 

I wish the team all the luck and hope that the Do 17 is in such good shape that it will come up more or less in one piece.

 

Goran N

DC3_3299-w.jpg

DC3_5058.jpg

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Corsec has the right to criticise and air his views on whether he thinks its right and wrong, thats his right its supposedly what our Grandfathers, Grandmothers and relatives fought for in WW2 plus the wars that came after. You don't have to agree with him.

 

I can't see the point of building a replica when you can find one on the seabed, if you had to build another Do 17 it would cost far in access off £300000 if you had to pay the full price up front without volunteer helpers. Whether what comes up from the seabed is worth £300000 only time will tell, the museum certainly won't say that it is junk they will ask for more money to help with the restoration.

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£300,000 is peanuts for a unique pice of 'British' history. Let's see, £300,000...a weeks wages for a footballer? a modest sized house, a flat in London, a flash sports car? Even triple that would be worth it for a unique item that helps to tell the story of the survival of the freedom of the country, and arguably the world.

 

How many at the RAF Museum management would sell their souls for an intact Stirling bomber? Too late now. How about the last HP Halifax, scrapped in the 1960's, even though it was known to be the last surviving intact example ( thankfully the Canadians found one to restore ). How much more history should we let go? I understand we can't save everything, but last surviving examples should be treasured.

 

We need to save not just our history, but the history of all sides in a conflict to tell the true story about the sacrifices made.

 

From what I've read elsewhere, the Dornier will be preserved and not restored. To restore it would pretty much mean replacing everything with new material, in which case a replica would do.

 

There's something about the RAFM Halifax, Galdiator and Hurricane displayed as they are. To me, there's a different atmosphere surrounding them. Something that perhaps makes you stop and think just a little more about the losses from war, rather than seeing yet another pretty aeroplane. I hope the Dornier, once preserved, will leave people with a chill up their spine and a pause for reflection about what happened to the world around 70 years ago.

 

halifax10.jpg

 

gladiator22.jpg

 

hurricane23.jpg

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Here's an interesting (and very well executed IMO) way to display an aircraft - seen last month at Duxford. Supposedly replicating an actual wartime photo of a soldier standing guard over a crashed plane but I missed the photo! The other side of the plane is in 'unrestored' condition.

 

Duxford.jpg

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There's a distinct similarity between the DO17 and this flying fish (mind you the flying fish appears to be missing its engines and propellers......).

 

flying fish.jpg

DO17.jpg

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Here's an interesting (and very well executed IMO) way to display an aircraft - seen last month at Duxford. Supposedly replicating an actual wartime photo of a soldier standing guard over a crashed plane but I missed the photo! The other side of the plane is in 'unrestored' condition.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]76345[/ATTACH]

 

This is a great exibit in my opinion. I went there for a full day a couple of years ago. the plane is depicting a photo taken of a crashed BF109 during the battle of britain over the south coast. Dont have full details but im sure some bod on here will have pics of the opposite side and original pic!

Whatever your interests take a FULL day at Duxford, you will not be dissapointed (thats an order soldier...!!):-D

Well worth the drive down for us, stay the night in a local B&B, loads of history down there relating to wartime conflicts!!

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Hey ruxy ..many years ago my Dads sister lived in Gloucester and whenever we visited we'd traipse out into the back garden to see the 'bomb damage' from one of the raids that hit the city .it wasn't much to see mind you ..there was a just a large chunk missing from one of the stone window sills with a corresponding gouge in the brickwork where a large piece of shrapnel had hit the house one night...like I said...not much at all in the grand scheme of things.... but it did somehow bring the war a lot closer to a fascinated 10 year old lad :)

I have no firm opinion on the recovery of the Do17 other than to say I guess if someones happy to pay ?...then it's going to happen one way of another ....

Interesting to hear the argument that it's a 'war grave'... it quite probably is....but ..

..if we were talking about a Tiger or a Panther or a Sherman that someone had just found buried in a meadow in France?....would the same be said of that??

I know the odds are, that the unfortunate crew would maybe have been recovered from a tank but....they might not have been ?......so.... should such a find also be left alone????

 

I think this kind of oral history is great and really brings it to life. Being born and brought up in Coventry my mother, who is now 89, went through the blitz and talks of sheltering under the kitchen table in fear of her life. No 26 (across the road) suffered a direct hit and the occupants were killed. This is something she always delights in telling any new buyers of no 26 when they move in! We have been trying to persuade her to record her experiences on tape for some time but to date she has resisted. Ironically my old man was with 20 BD company who were based in Hastings at the time - it was 5 days before he knew whether she was alive or dead.

 

If the recovery of the dornier helps to bring this sort of thing to life then so be it. Dont see much point in doing anything other than conserving it though as you would have to replace so much of it I suspect it would become almost a replica. To my mind seeing it in its original condition will be more powerful.

 

As an aside Ive been to Berlin a couple of times over the years and every time I go a bit of history seems to have disappeared. When we first went in the 90's the Brandenburg Gate still bore the scars of 1945, now it looks like it was built yesterday. I can understand a nation wanting to move on, but it is just less interesting (for me at least!)...

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From what I've read elsewhere, the Dornier will be preserved and not restored. To restore it would pretty much mean replacing everything with new material, in which case a replica would do.

 

There's something about the RAFM Halifax, Galdiator and Hurricane displayed as they are. To me, there's a different atmosphere surrounding them. Something that perhaps makes you stop and think just a little more about the losses from war, rather than seeing yet another pretty aeroplane. I hope the Dornier, once preserved, will leave people with a chill up their spine and a pause for reflection about what happened to the world around 70 years ago.

 

 

Steve,

 

Very well put. I totally agree & I hope the Dornier is recovered and preserved like the Halifax, Gladiator and Hurricane. These are among the most powerful mementos of WW2, in a way more powerful than a flying airplane...

 

Hanno

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Actually, last I heard it was coming up in two main pieces- the fuselage, with tail will come up as one piece, and the wings will come up as a second. The Dornier 17 (among a large number of planes) was designed to manufactured in that way- the fuselage would be made as a single piece and then the wing centre section would be inserted into the gap on top. The plan as i heard it would be to attempted to remove the rivets holding the wing centre section on. I believe they may be bringing the engines up seperately.

 

Why are the engines coming up seperatly is it because the they were ripped off or because they have rotted off to the point where they will fall off anyway

Edited by cosrec

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Do you criticise the likes of Amac for his efforts in restoring a Loyd Carrier, arguably from a far worse state than this Dornier?

 

No far from it his carrier is salvagable to the piont it will propabley be driving about that pile of ferric/aluminum oxide what ever condition it comes to the surface in will never represent the machine that went down.

Edited by cosrec

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If we applied rationality to any of this we would all be driving around in electric vehicles and Everest wold still be unclimbed.

 

A big thumbs up to irrational adventurers the world over and long may they pull things of the seabed or rebuild lumps of rust into machinery.:D

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It is not my money to play with, but I am glad that many of you in Britain can still want to achieve things and not take that long, comfortable swan dive into obscurity.

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Here's an interesting (and very well executed IMO) way to display an aircraft - seen last month at Duxford. Supposedly replicating an actual wartime photo of a soldier standing guard over a crashed plane but I missed the photo! The other side of the plane is in 'unrestored' condition.

 

 

6611867509_44675896af.jpg

Bf 109E-3 1190, ex-Bf109E-4/N, ex-4/JG 26 "White 4", White 4 @ Duxford December 2011 by Nicholas1963, on Flickr

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Some people just like to criticise....... I wonder what they themselves have achieved?

 

May not be rich but seen life upset a few plonkers on the way and enjoyed every momment of it will put a full CV on if it helps

Edited by cosrec

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Why are the engines coming up seperatly is it because the they were ripped off or because they have rotted off to the point where they will fall off anyway

 

For the same reason the engines are frequently removed during recovery operations- simply to make things easier. As it is, the engines put a lot of weight to one side of the load, which can cause the load to twist and potentially damage it. This is the same regardless of whether the aircraft crashed 70 years ago or yesterday.

 

Also I'm not sure what sources the article you quoted used, my mention that the aircraft would come up in two pieces was through a conversation with a member of the RAF Museum staff involved in the operation. However this was some months ago so the recovery team may have decided otherwise but I doubt it.

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May not be rich but seen life upset a few plonkers on the way and enjoyed every momment of it

 

Whatever makes you happy.

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May not be rich but seen life upset a few plonkers on the way and enjoyed every momment of it will put a full CV on if it helps

cosrec

 

you seem to be baiting the members in this thread, if you have nothing constructive to add to the thread then please refrain from posting.

 

Thank you.

Edited by Marmite!!

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For the same reason the engines are frequently removed during recovery operations- simply to make things easier. As it is, the engines put a lot of weight to one side of the load, which can cause the load to twist and potentially damage it. This is the same regardless of whether the aircraft crashed 70 years ago or yesterday.

 

Also I'm not sure what sources the article you quoted used, my mention that the aircraft would come up in two pieces was through a conversation with a member of the RAF Museum staff involved in the operation. However this was some months ago so the recovery team may have decided otherwise but I doubt it.

 

 

The recovery methodology includes a bespoke lifting frame which will be employed to retrieve the Dornier from the seabed. Of modular construction the frame will be assembled around the aircraft, the lower sections being inserted beneath the wings and rear fuselage before attachment to the upper lifting portion (once on the surface this structure will also be employed as a transport cradle).

Lifting Frame Design

 

 

Dornier_lifting_frame_drawing.jpg

 

 

raf museums web site there is a drawing on but it hasnot pasted in

 

www.rafmuseum.org.uk

Edited by cosrec

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I would personally love to see it at Duxford. In my opinion there should be at least one of every machine preserved whatever the politics of the situation.

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Well then, i stand corrected. The lift company obviously decided they could do it in one after the last inspection dive, as i haven't spoken to anyone since just before then. Although the fact they want to do it in one speaks volumes for the integrity of the structure.

However, having seen the hydration tunnels the Dornier will be spending time in, it will have to be separated into two to fit in. Unless they are going to somehow make a frankentunnel large enough to house the complete airframe. Seeing the fuselage and wing frames in different probably indicate they are separate structures for the purposes of transporting the aircraft.

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Seem that very little is being reported on this since we had the First of the bad News report from BBC

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