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Graham

Dad's army and lee-enfields

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Did anyone watch an early episode of 'Dad's Army', in black/white, on Friday night? Bit sad I know of me to notice but it showed our pals using a Lewis gun and what seemed at least No.4 or possible No.5 Lee-Enfields, someone will be able to correct me. Added to that Corporal Jones was waving around a 16" Remington bayonet on his Enfield. Must have had friends in high places for them to be issued with the latest, and possibly, future weapons ;) I bet they would have had MkIII* like mine.

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You stupid boy!

 

article-2042580-000D88FB00000258-528_468x319.jpg

 

You're possibly taking historical accuracy, a touch too seriously!;)

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No it's a P17 and perfectly correct for HG issue. Dad's Army was generally very accurate as regards uniform and equipment. They even used 37 pattern bino pouches as look alike HG pouches, which were obviously not available in quantity at the time. At least they made an effort which is more than can be said for many TV and film productions.

The bayonet was right too.

 

P17 in use by HG below

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Paul

large.jpg

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Home Guard weapons varied over time. At the very beginning it was mostly civilian firearms such as shotguns and hunting rifles. The first service weapons to be generally issued were .303 Enfield Pattern 1914 rifles from reserves followed by lend lease US .30-06 Model 1917 rifles. (Sometimes designated the 'P17' in British service) The US rifles had red bands painted around them to denote they didn't take standard .303 ammunition.

 

As the war progressed, the Home Guard started to get more up to date weapons such as the Sten SMG. Of course, by this time the realistic chance of a German invasion had passed.

 

Oh, and Noel Coward penned a satirical tune on the Home Guard called 'Would you please oblige us with a Bren gun?' Many years later, it was performed by the Dad's Army cast for a Christmas special. ;)

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P17 in use by HG below

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]57144[/ATTACH]

 

 

I think that's a P1914 as it has a butt disc and I think I can just make out the end of the volley site dial bolt - neither of which were found on the M1917. The 'LDV' armbands must make it a fairly early picture.

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I think that's a P1914 as it has a butt disc and I think I can just make out the end of the volley site dial bolt - neither of which were found on the M1917. The 'LDV' armbands must make it a fairly early picture.

 

Defo a P14

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No it's a P17 and perfectly correct for HG issue. Dad's Army was generally very accurate as regards uniform and equipment. They even used 37 pattern bino pouches as look alike HG pouches, which were obviously not available in quantity at the time. At least they made an effort which is more than can be said for many TV and film productions.

The bayonet was right too.

 

P17 in use by HG below

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]57144[/ATTACH]

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

 

I think I have a LDV armband somewhere, never knew what it meant.

Land Defence Volunteers maybe?

 

Damn, but where did I put it.

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... and when Pike got his sticky paws on the Thompson it was the proper 1921 / 28A1 model too, with the compensator and the L drum.

 

The British got a lot of the original Colt-produced 1921 model, some of which were 1928A1 overstamps.

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The Home Gaurd also got a lot of varied guns and equipment compliments of a US based charity 'Guns for British Homes'.

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I think I have a LDV armband somewhere, never knew what it meant.

Land Defence Volunteers maybe?

 

Damn, but where did I put it.

 

Local Defence Volunteer.

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Local Defence Volunteer.

 

 

Found it!:dancinggirls:

 

 

I bought a Denim jacket last year and discovered the armband and a mini medal ribbon bar (fruitsalade) with the

Victorymedal, warmedal plus the Mons star with a little rose on it.

 

Guess I did a good buy on it!

Edited by Enigma
typo's

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Also know as "Look, Duck & Vanish"

Hence them being, in the modern parlence, "Rebranded" as the Home Guard.

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Also know as "Look, Duck & Vanish"

Hence them being, in the modern parlence, "Rebranded" as the Home Guard.

 

"One evening as an LDV, some German soldiers I did see, they ran like hell, but they couldn't catch me...":D

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so...guessing that there must have been a few million Lee Enfield's manufactured for WW2.???

.what happened to them all??.....

..... the same as anyone of my generation I guess...I recall there being 30 or so de-activated ones at our ATC Squadron in the early 70s and all the Army Cadet units must have had a good few thousand of them too...........but ...that only amounted to a drip in the ocean compared to how many must have been made between '39 and '45...

so.......what would have happened to the majority of the rest ????...

did the government have a mass destruction programme on them at some point over the last 30 years ???????????????

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A lot were manufactured overseas, Canada, South Africa, Australia , India. They would have back to the country of origin and a lot of them are still shooting.

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so...guessing that there must have been a few million Lee Enfield's manufactured for WW2.???

.what happened to them all??.....

..... the same as anyone of my generation I guess...I recall there being 30 or so de-activated ones at our ATC Squadron in the early 70s and all the Army Cadet units must have had a good few thousand of them too...........but ...that only amounted to a drip in the ocean compared to how many must have been made between '39 and '45...

so.......what would have happened to the majority of the rest ????...

did the government have a mass destruction programme on them at some point over the last 30 years ???????????????

 

Thousands of weapons were put through heavy cropping jaws during the 1950s........... can you imagine the M-o-D allowing that now, they came in by the truck load.

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thanks to the UN, the majority of obsolete military guns are destroyed. Theres only the likes of New Zealand and Greece who sell them on now. In 1940 there were only 2 sub machine guns in the UK, a German MP28 and a Thompson 1921 captured from the IRA.

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A lot were manufactured overseas, Canada, South Africa, Australia , India. They would have back to the country of origin and a lot of them are still shooting.

 

America also made a fair few. My No4 was made by Savage Co USA. It has US Property stamped on the side of it

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My Mossberg has the same. The US was Neutral and there fore could not sell equipment to the British. However as Rossevelt said 'If a man's house is on fire. you'd lend him a hose pipe'. But you cannot Lend or Lease equipment, unless you can PROVE it is yours! Hence the markings (Wonder if we now both get snotty letters from Washington?:D ) My Mossberg dates to a batch that arrived February 1942, so your Savage must be around that date or ealier. Post 7th December 1941 Germany had declared war on the US so the need to mark did not apply.

Edited by Tony B

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...I recall there being 30 or so de-activated ones at our ATC Squadron in the early 70s and all the Army Cadet units must have had a good few thousand of them too...

 

Deactivated? About 1971-2 I live fired 303s in Durham ACF.

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Deactivated? About 1971-2 I live fired 303s in Durham ACF.

The Royal Navy didn't stop using them till about 1970. As the Gunnery instructor told us 'They thought they had plenty of stores. Didn't count on people like me using about two thousands rounds a day for personal use'.

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Deactivated? About 1971-2 I live fired 303s in Durham ACF.

Yeah we used 'live' ones (proper good kick for a small 14 year old!) on the range whenever we had a special 'day out' or were on summer camp but we only had de-activated ones at our squadron hut for rifle drill & stripping practice etc..

..we mainly used .22 bolt action rifles with a little stick mag that held (I think?) 7 rounds at our local TA range but again we never had these at our own hut... I guess they were kept locked up at the TA range .......:)

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The bolt action .22 may well have been a Mossberg. A lot went to cadet units, that's where mine came from. I also have a .22 Enfeild No1 completet with the toys. That was made about 1903 for cadet units.

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