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kosbie

Use of CMP Field Gun Tractors by British Field Regiments in WW2

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I am currently restoring a 1944 CMP Chevrolet CGT (13 cab). As my 25pr and limber are British I am as yet undecided as to whether to finish it as a Canadian or British Army vehicle. My question is this - does anyone know which British Army Field Regiments used the Chevy Quad gun tractor in WW2 instead of the more usual Morris Quad?

(As yet I know nothing of the vehicle's actual history)

Thanks

Rick Overy

Edited by kosbie

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Thanks Tony

Does anyone know of specific Field regts that had CMP gun tractors, so i can get the markings right

Rick

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Some war-time photographs would be useful as evidence.

 

I would imagine they probably saw a lot more use in Italy or the Far East rather than NW Europe.

Where possible vehicles were standardised in Europe to ensure spares supply.

 

The Maple Leaf Up Forum will probably be able to help you more.

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I have seen photos and film of the Ford version being driven out of Fords at Dagenham, where they were assembled after being sent over in crates from Canada in WW2. Sorry, can't help with any more details.

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I have dug up some pictures I dont knowif the vehicle is post war or the cap badge

 

Thanks. Looking at the black and white photos I wonder if that is the 5th Infantry division insignia on the front slope of the cab (unusual place for isignia though?)

Rick

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I'd be asking this question on the Maple Leaf Up Forum, as they know everything there is to know about CMPs and who used them and how.

 

Gordon

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Might be of use to you ,Tractor 4X4 Chevrolet Field Artillery Contract No 2020 WD No,s H 4546194- H4546693

and Contract No 2028 WD No,s H4593648 - H4594497.

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Try Alan Turner, Firepower have one, he may have access to the information you want.

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cheers Tony you B. although I have the most yards on the museums chevvy (bedford) quad getting information about it and others is like pulling hens teeth from certain party's at back of house although I get on well with them all.

There was I site that I bookmarked as it had all RA units during 39/45 but it seems to have disappeared from my listings.

 

Certainly from 1940 onwards the Canadian produced thousands of soft skin trucks from 15 cwt to 3 ton and Artillery tractors varying from type 11, 12 & 13 bodies and much later the open back truck variety and were used from North Africa Italy and then through Europe after D Day. they were also used in the far east as related to me by an old Gunner from Preston about getting 45mph on hard sand full train (John Crompton Decd). They were certainly tough trucks there is a photo in the RA Archive of tractor and limber dangling from a bridge parapet by the wedged wheels of the 25pdr, the driver climbed out unhurt.

 

The canadian units were re engined with bedford 28hp and demobbed post war very quickly most going to recovery trucks because of the winch.

 

I have seen photos of the final 25pdr units being disbanded at Woolwich Barracks and they were all Morris quad very much bulled

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I have refound the Royal Artillery site check out www.ra30-45pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

 

it covers all types during that period but click field/RHA regiments for brief histories anyhting prior to 1940 towing vehicle would have been Morris, Karrier, Guy all mainly lost in france.

 

alan

Edited by alan turner (RIP)
missed a bit out

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Thanks for the help so far guys.

Alan - I thnk the lonk should be 39-45 not 30-45

 

I see that Firepower have a research service. Anyone any experience of using this. I dont mind paying for the search if there is a reasonable cgance of success?

 

The Contract numbers are interesting but i am not sure I fully understand all that stuff. Are there any dates associated with these contracts? Where do you find this sort of stuff?

 

Thanks

Rick

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Thanks for the help so far guys.

Alan - I thnk the lonk should be 39-45 not 30-45

 

I see that Firepower have a research service. Anyone any experience of using this. I dont mind paying for the search if there is a reasonable cgance of success?

 

The Contract numbers are interesting but i am not sure I fully understand all that stuff. Are there any dates associated with these contracts? Where do you find this sort of stuff?

 

Thanks

Rick

 

 

Contract No,s and W.D No,s are from ALLOCATION By CENTRAL CENSUS TANKS and VEHICLES of "B" VEHICLE W.D. NUMBERS , Listing in numerical order all allocated W.D numbers for soft skin vehicles up to and including 23 November 1944.

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sorry all that is confirmed as 39-45, digit problem.

 

Firepower will not have any information on vehicle allocation to units, only one bloke would know and that would be the corporal of the MT Section who would have so many 15cwt , 3 tonners and Quad tractors under his control.

 

If you can find proper ID plates then its off to Deepcut.

 

As you are aware the images I post come from The Royal Arsenal Woolwich Historical Society collection and I have just been co-opted as their web site co-ordinator for their site at www.royalarsenalwoolwich.co.uk, I shall still show images as before

 

Alan

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The RA Museums Chevy is basically a running shell with a correct front half but a replica back half. The driving position is really good as you are nearly sitting on the floor per F1 and handling is good compared to Morris quad which I have also tried.

 

The back has the right shape but no interior lockers and a bench seat with seat belts for when we (I) used to give kids of all ages rides around some of the old Arsenal site, surprising how 80 year old gunners are still the quickest at tgetting into the vehicle compared with ladies half their age who need to be virtually lifted on.

 

What engine are you going to use? the Chevy unit is slightly bigger than the bedford but bedford parts are easier to get hold of which is why so many were converted by the REME before demob. I think Richard Farrant has plenty of tales about that.

 

heres a few photos all my own.

 

alan

Chevrolet Quad FA&.JPG

Chevrolet Quad FA&.JPG

DSCF00011..jpg

Chevrolet Quad FA&.JPG

DSCF0006..jpg

DSCF0019..jpg

Chevrolet Quad FA&.JPG

DSCF000100..jpg

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Hi Guys

 

Just cought up with this thread looking at the orgianal photos it looks to me as priviously said 5th Yorkshire Infantry Division.

 

All the other points made then add up they were in Italy untill very near the end of teh war when they where moved to Northern Europe. The Number on the left looks like a 44 wich means that it is an infantry division and if it is the 5th Division then that makes the Regiment 156th (Lanarkshire Yeomanry) Field Regiment RA(TA)

 

Some info

 

156th under the command of Lt Col Younger saw action in the Middle East, Sicily, Anzio and further into Italy and ended the war in Germany. They also had an eventful time as described in the privately printed and published book, '593 : the story of a Field Battery 1940-45' which is dedicated to Major F.W. Batey, MC and Bar, who was killed in action at Anzio. Contributing to the story was the Battery Commander, Major E.J.H. Bates who himself won the MC at Anzio. Both those Field Regiments have a history to be proud of. After the war, like many proud units they were merged and re merged until their identity has all but disappeared. There is a growing interest in the history of the Lanarkshire Yeomanry and its place in military history over the years and anyone with any relevant information, or who would wish to know more, can contact Campbell Thomson at ct@jcthomson.co.uk

 

I hope this helps better late than never the would not be the only one

 

Keith

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The RA Museums Chevy is basically a running shell with a correct front half but a replica back half. The driving position is really good as you are nearly sitting on the floor per F1 and handling is good compared to Morris quad which I have also tried.

 

The back has the right shape but no interior lockers and a bench seat with seat belts for when we (I) used to give kids of all ages rides around some of the old Arsenal site, surprising how 80 year old gunners are still the quickest at tgetting into the vehicle compared with ladies half their age who need to be virtually lifted on.

 

What engine are you going to use? the Chevy unit is slightly bigger than the bedford but bedford parts are easier to get hold of which is why so many were converted by the REME before demob. I think Richard Farrant has plenty of tales about that.

 

heres a few photos all my own.

 

alan

 

Hi Alan.

Sorry about the delay replying, lots of reasons, none of them very good. Thanks for all the help. My Chevy has the original Chevy 6 cylinder engine, matching the number on the data plate, and it runs pretty well (currently no brakes though). It is virtually complete inside, in fact the only thing I have identified as missing are the front rifle holders and the holder for the plotting board tripod has rotted away. Even the map light is present and they have usually gone walkabout. The rear is pretty original but some of the skinning and some bin doors have been replaced, but using original fittings. attached are some photos as arrived (from Norway) and with body stripped down for restoration.

Rick

002.jpg

2. As arrived Jan 10.jpg

003.jpg

As arrived Jan 10.jpg

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The pictures of CH4207286 on page 1 was originally marked as Canadian as it had a Canadian contract number of LV329. It was later changed to British! I know because I used to own the vehicle.

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She is in good hands the owner puts down carpet so our boots dont get her muddy and as for going out in the rain well just dont ask(for display purposes only) and "no way will I use 4 wheel drive the gears will get dirty."

Almost only kidding But he is a good bloke and is looking after her.

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The RA Museums Chevy is basically a running shell with a correct front half but a replica back half. The driving position is really good as you are nearly sitting on the floor per F1 and handling is good compared to Morris quad which I have also tried.

 

The back has the right shape but no interior lockers and a bench seat with seat belts for when we (I) used to give kids of all ages rides around some of the old Arsenal site, surprising how 80 year old gunners are still the quickest at tgetting into the vehicle compared with ladies half their age who need to be virtually lifted on.

 

Hi Alan, could this be the same Quad back in the 1970's?

 

"Imperial War Museum's Chevrolet Quad 4x4, field artillery tractor. Duxford 1970's"

Imperial War Museum Chevrolet 8440/CGT FAT Duxford 1970s

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Hi Alan, could this be the same Quad back in the 1970's?

 

"Imperial War Museum's Chevrolet Quad 4x4, field artillery tractor. Duxford 1970's"

Imperial War Museum Chevrolet 8440/CGT FAT Duxford 1970s

 

Hi Hanno,

I know a little of the history of the Quad at the Firepower museum. It came to the Royal Artillery museum at the Rotunda in Woolwich from the Muckleburgh museum and was reputed to be an ex-garage breakdown truck. This was borne out by the top of the rear body being cut away for the crane. The engine was a Bedford 28hp, which I distinctly remember having a Vauxhall Motors rebuild plate for the 1950's on the block. It went to the REME Workshops at Colchester as an apprentice project to restore. For a reason that I do not remember, it was later sideloaded to the REME Workshops at Ashford for apprentices to once again work on it. Somehow it ended it up in my section of the Workshops and I had to supervise an apprentice doing some of the work on it. The restoration was done with materials available and not to the greatest detail, the curator at the time was just happy to have it running and to closely represent its original appearance. There was no budget to go out and procure correct parts. I seem to think before it came to us it had 11.00-20 runflat tyres fitted and it gave a very hard ride.

 

To sum up, it could have gone from Duxford to Muckleburgh originally.

 

I am sending you a PM regarding this.

 

regards, Richard

Edited by Richard Farrant

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