Panzer IV @ $2,000,000+

According to the Littlefield auction estimate that is the starting point for the Pz4 restoration project that will be available in July. What's the general thought, is that a reasonable guesstimate at the price it will reach?

I think the estimates on the littlefield auction are overpriced, but then theres a good market for them over there. The question is whether that market will be flooded with such a large auction, but the star items are bound to go for big money.

Nevermind the Panzer IV, if I had the spare money I'd plumb for the Staghound, wonderful machine.

Panzer 4 is a little steep, maybe 1milion but only because it's already in the states. What I want to know is what has happened to the Cromwell ?

Some strange estimates, the Kegresse I'd expect to sale past it's $10K top estimate, $100K+ for a FLAK 36? $15-25K for an FV432???? $900K for the Sdkfz7 looks steep too.

The PzIV is certainly rare, fairly complete, so who knows what it'd fetch.

Some strange estimates,.................... $15-25K for an FV432????

Consider these vehicles are in the US and will command a higher price than UK as they are already in the country. As a comparison, a collector in New Zealand currently has two FV432 Mk2 for sale at the equivalent to 27,400 US Dollars each.

According to the Littlefield auction estimate that is the starting point for the Pz4 restoration project that will be available in July. What's the general thought, is that a reasonable guesstimate at the price it will reach?

I understand there are issues with importing armour into the US, therefore anything already on US soil will command a higher price.

jh

I understand there are issues with importing armour into the US

jh

Only US built armour.

I guess the auctioneer really does not have any idea regarding the guide prices as they are not particularly experts in this field, but you might have thought that they would have taken advice from the people who worked there, maybe they have been misled by the prices Mr Littfield actually paid for them in the first place ? Was rather pleased at the guide on the M578, but it's only a guide.

I intend being there for the 2 days so it should be interesting to see who is bidding on the day. Anyone else planning on going ?

I was there last Sunday and had a good look at what is for sale in the auction. Most are pretty rough with a few exceptions, the FV's are really rough, not near worth the estimates. As well many big collectors have already had their pick of the best vehicles, the ones left are the ones that held little interest for them or were so rough or incomplete they were passed on. Prior to the auction about a third of the tanks not going to Collings were sold privately including the M48A2 Magach, XM-1 GM Abrams prototype, M48 Patton ser. #1, ex-Serbian M36 Jackson, T62, M51 Sherman, Crusader, Leopard 1, PZ61, BTR 70 etc. The T54 was for sale for years for $45k US or best offer but never sold, now the auction company estimates $75-100k....I think they are way off...and remember the running, driving Conqueror that was for sale in Utah for almost a year, and they were only asking $100k, now they think a tank that is really only valuable to a museum that has a range of British armor will fetch big dollars. Just moving that 70 ton tank down that hill and out of California will add tens of thousands to its sale price. In my opinion, if any of the major collectors wanted any of the tanks that the Collings foundation did not, they would have been sold prior to the auction. I think the Pz. iV and the Sherman Jumbo being sold as private offerings now is a way to hedge their bets against a weak auction return. An opinion I heard repeated several times during my visit last week.

I have to ask, did you see if the Cromwell was still there?

No Rick the Cromwell was gone, the Comet was still there but no Crommy. Some of the tanks that are going to the Collings foundation have been shipped to them already so it is possible that it is already in Stow or on route. The Crusader ended up in Utah at a great collection.

Thank you for the reply, it will be interesting to see where it turns up!

John I plan to be there. My travel distance is quite closer only 5 driving hours. I have an Abbot SPG I imported last year from the UK. look forward to seeing whats there and what condition its in. I just purchased a M1070 HET to pull the Abbot around with. I'm now looking for a M747 trailer to put it on. The Abbot at the auction looks better than the one I have. I wouldn't mind picking it up to use in parades and veterans events. It is great to take to schools and let the kids get inside. Actually at most auctions there's crazy people or auction fever that drives up the price. Oh wait a minute, I said Crazy people. We might fit into That group. :-D. Cheers Rick. Frankly Id Like to come home with all the British stuff but I haven't won the Lottery yet!!!!

John I plan to be there. My travel distance is quite closer only 5 driving hours. I have an Abbot SPG I imported last year from the UK. look forward to seeing whats there and what condition its in. I just purchased a M1070 HET to pull the Abbot around with. I'm now looking for a M747 trailer to put it on. The Abbot at the auction looks better than the one I have. I wouldn't mind picking it up to use in parades and veterans events. It is great to take to schools and let the kids get inside. Actually at most auctions there's crazy people or auction fever that drives up the price. Oh wait a minute, I said Crazy people. We might fit into That group. :-D. Cheers Rick. Frankly Id Like to come home with all the British stuff but I haven't won the Lottery yet!!!!

Rick,

Hope to meet up with you there, would also like to see your HET, I have its predecessor the M746 HET here in the UK.

I know there are 4 x M747 trailers for sale at Sam Winer Motors, Akron, Ohio. Here is a picture of them last week.

Thanks for the info on the M747 trailers. I'm going to call over there tomorrow to see the condition and price. Believe it or not it was easier to get the Abbot in the states than it is to fill out the ECU for being a citizen to get the HET off the base. I'm sure we will meet up and I'm looking forward to it. I live in Willow Creek Ca. 95573. I will stay in touch. I also have a Hagglunds BV206,M923A2 cargo truck, a couple M932A2 truck tractors, and a H1 military Hummer. I don't know maybe I fell off a truck and hit my head but I cant get enough of these type of vehicles .It seems you have quite a few as well. Thanks and Cheers Rick

Hey Rick isn't the M747 too wide for anybody but the military to use? And I also don't think you can run a quad axle trailer in California unless under permit. I suppose you could narrow the trailer to legal width and remove one axle or even just sling the fwd axle and remove the tires and wheels. Remember Uncle Sam doesn't stop at the scales!

You are right.We can be 102" wide without a permit.The M747 is 137" wide. What was I thinking. Without the permits and a lot of hassle I probably couldn't use it .California is the land of fruits and nuts. I'm glad I found this forum. It helps to keep me on track. I Get excited and lose my brains trying to make the complete package. So I have a extra 5th wheel plate. I will put one on between the rear 2 axles of the HET. This way I can pull the Abbot with the trailer I currently use. Thanks for pointing that out!!. I'm in the Towing and Recovery business in a very rural area. We travel to Oregon occasionally and have to get permits to enter. I think Interstate trucking is more like going to 50 different countries than States.With the "Show me your papers" at every port of entry. Thanks Again Cheers Rick.

The T62 left long before the Collings bunch bought the rest. I know where a few of the others went after he bought it though. I was impressed with the fantasy pricing on a lot of that stuff too. A friend suggested that the prices came from a friend of Rob Collings who is a modeler and another who is an enthusiast but neither have any knowledge of real armor. I was shocked at the $1-2K price on the swiss ammo cart when I just bought one retail from a dealer here in the States for $400. ( I needed the wheels for another project). As noted its tough to deal with these guys and I'm surprised anyone has managed to get anything off the mountain top with the road the way it is. I think a lot of the stuff will go for more than we think just because of advertising and promo to folks that aren't knowledgeable in the hobby. Good chance the volume of stuff will keep prices down on the more common toys . Anxious to see how it goes and if the prices are right there are a lot of good parts out there even if the vehicles are junk.

Frank

To anyone that goes if you could take some pictures or a video of the tanks it would be pretty interesting to post on here....Thank you...I hope you all have a great time.....

Joe in USA

Rick, I think the tank went east or it was sold prior, most of the good armor and vehicles were kept for the new museum, others that had deep pockets were allowed to buy prior to the auction and had their picks of pieces, it is good to have close friends, that is what a little birdie told me, I am trying to get the exact location, so yours is still really the only one on the market, well Adrian's is still too (but in pieces), but close to being sold, and mine is in pieces too.

cheers lance