ArtistsRifles Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) Went to collect the Stalwart from the Bunker site today - should have come home on Monday but the air pressure wouldn't build again. We assumed it was probably some muck in one of the air packs thrown up and interfering with the sensing valve again. So a couple of days for it to dry out and free up seemed OK. Got there and cranked the old girl up - and lo & behold - air pressure!! However as soon as she moved off the problem we had at RR Services - and which was supposed to have been resolved by them - popped up again, Namely the Front and Rear O/S wheels and N/S Centre wheels brakes seized on. All on the same braking circuit. What I really need now is some one who knows/understands a Stalwarts braking system that can point us in the right direction to fix this once and for all. To say I'm feeling P*ss*D off is an understatement!! :argh::argh: Now we have to determine what is actually causing the problem before we can even attempt to remedy it.... Edited May 22, 2009 by ArtistsRifles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Neil. Dont take offence at this. But if that stolly was mine,then by now it would be sitting on top of a pile of wood,with me holding a five gallon jerrican and a match. Or the more obvious i would be dumping the thing back and RR and telling them to sort the f***ing thing out once and for all. They made sure they charged you enough in the first place i would put the onus on them!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 Neil. Dont take offence at this. But if that stolly was mine,then by now it would be sitting on top of a pile of wood,with me holding a five gallon jerrican and a match. Or the more obvious i would be dumping the thing back and RR and telling them to sort the f***ing thing out once and for all. They made sure they charged you enough in the first place i would put the onus on them!! Trust me sir - (a) I know the feeling!! and (b) I am trying this (but don't hold out much hope of a plus outcome for me...) Apart from anything else - I've lost all faith in their abilities to sort the problem out!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) Neil try the magic words 'Small claims Court'. or 'Not merchantable Quality' and 'Trading Standards Office'. Can't say RR have ever impressed me, I've heard other tails, such as Jeep bought and paid for that magically changed its identity for a rust bucket when the conatainer was opened at it's destination. Edited May 22, 2009 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84KB11 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Neil, Have you tried John Dews? Can't put my hand on his number at the mo, will see if I can find it over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I have to agree with Mark. I would take the thing back to R+R and tell them to sort it or else. If you've paid your money for the repairs etc, get them to sort it out. There may be other problems that surface in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 I e-mailed RR today setting out my thoughts on this issue and will await a reply. Thing is now - I'm not sure I won't get more grief after than before! Not to mention a bill for recovering it back to the works. Anyways I also rang Baz from RM services here on the Forum and had a word with him - they are branching out into Stalwarts (The men with white coats will be calling soon, I'm sure...) He's going to talk to some one tomorrow who worked on them for many years and is going to get back to me next week - I'm away next week taking the wife on a break to the New Forest to make up for a certain recent 7.62mm acquisition. If this gives me a "fixed once and for all solution" then - in my book - it will be worth it. And if RM are as good as they sound then I know a few other owners who will be making tracks to their workshop doors!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) I e-mailed RR today setting out my thoughts on this issue and will await a reply. Thing is now - I'm not sure I won't get more grief after than before! Not to mention a bill for recovering it back to the works. Anyways I also rang Baz from RM services here on the Forum and had a word with him - they are branching out into Stalwarts (The men with white coats will be calling soon, I'm sure...) He's going to talk to some one tomorrow who worked on them for many years and is going to get back to me next week - I'm away next week taking the wife on a break to the New Forest to make up for a certain recent 7.62mm acquisition. If this gives me a "fixed once and for all solution" then - in my book - it will be worth it. And if RM are as good as they sound then I know a few other owners who will be making tracks to their workshop doors!! Already gave you advice today Neil & offered to help you out... also you have the REME guys at the fort... & what about the service you were going to offer others http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=12247 No worries just let me know when the low loader is picking it up from the Bunker.. Edited May 23, 2009 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Neil, Have you tried John Dews? Can't put my hand on his number at the mo, will see if I can find it over the weekend. He,s halfway through a full stolly rebuild at the moment. Thats without the servicing and repairs on Ferrets he is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I e-mailed RR today setting out my thoughts on this issue and will await a reply. Thing is now - I'm not sure I won't get more grief after than before! Not to mention a bill for recovering it back to the works. Anyways I also rang Baz from RM services here on the Forum and had a word with him - they are branching out into Stalwarts (The men with white coats will be calling soon, I'm sure...) He's going to talk to some one tomorrow who worked on them for many years and is going to get back to me next week - I'm away next week taking the wife on a break to the New Forest to make up for a certain recent 7.62mm acquisition. If this gives me a "fixed once and for all solution" then - in my book - it will be worth it. And if RM are as good as they sound then I know a few other owners who will be making tracks to their workshop doors!! Baz is learning on my stolly Neil......I have a clutch a wheel station and a few other bits and pieces to sort... But if your brake system is staying on then you must have pressure getting to the hydraulics from the air system, the system is split in two and the wheel stations braking as you mention is totally as I would expect....but locking on is odd...do they eventually free themselves when there is no air pressure...if yes then it is an air fault, if no then it is a hydraulic fault...obvious i guess I will take a look at the diagrams again but it sounds like it is either getting air in somewhere and or there is too much air on the fluid, or you have the wrong brake fluid in or similar reasons... ...you can bet it is not a simple fix but i will pour over the manuals this weekend for you... I can only say dont blame the garage, these faults can be very elusive...all service people have their bad points but your fault is very quirky...heres what I would do... Check the lines from the brake master cylinders for damage, particularly for pinching or similar... Check that the brake master cylinder is okay, remove and strip... Inspect the air lines to the brakes to ensure again no pinching or similar,,,check the pressure relief valves are all free...and also make sure the air pressure is not going too high...are you losing air..and at what rate...mine has started to lose air after only a few hours when in the past it would hold it for a day at least.. Its not a massively complex air system just a lot of difficult to locate lines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcap Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Fair to say I know nothing about stolies, but I do know something about air hydraulics, being a PSV driver - surely the systems brakes would fail ON rather than fail OFF? Would that help narrow down the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Fair to say I know nothing about stolies, but I do know something about air hydraulics, being a PSV driver - surely the systems brakes would fail ON rather than fail OFF? Would that help narrow down the problem? Nope... not on these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 Fair to say I know nothing about stolies, but I do know something about air hydraulics, being a PSV driver - surely the systems brakes would fail ON rather than fail OFF? Would that help narrow down the problem? Not on these Roger - they are air over hydraulic so if the air fails you can still stop the beast - but the pedal effort is rather a lot!!! Already gave you advice today Neil & offered to help you out... also you have the REME guys at the fort... & what about the service you were going to offer others http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=12247'>http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=12247'>http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=12247 No worries just let me know when the low loader is picking it up from the Bunker.. The advice and the offer is much appreciated. But right now I'm so cheesed I just want a "Fixed" solution. rather than taking everything apart and rebuilding it in the hope I find the issue. Apart from anything else money isn't infinite right now as I'm out of work and don't get a penny in benefits. Stripping down each wheel station you estimated at £80/station - thats nigh on £500 just for the calipers. Let alone the hoses and master cylinders and oil. Whats interesting me is it's the SAME brake circuit every time - thus the same 3 wheels. If it were just duff seals I would expect the odds against them being all on one circuit stacked against! If you recall - when we bled the clutch at the Fort a lot of crap came out of the lines - I'm wondering if the same is in the brake circuits and is screwing up one of the master cylinders? It was when RR played with the M/C the second time that things started working - and we did a fair bit of bumping about over the weekend and on Monday, enough maybe to disturb loose muck lieing in the lines? This has been bugging me ever since yesterday morning and I'm fairly sure that is where the issue is. But I would like an expert opinion before any form of work is started as, like I said, money is most definitely finite until I can find another job. The REME guys at the Fort go white every time the words "Stalwart" and "Problem are mentioned - although Big Jim did say he wopuld have a look at it after the Grays Legion event thats on today - however it won't be going there so....... As regards the http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=12247 thread - read it carefully, at no time did I ever say I was going to be the one weilding the spanners.. All I asked was if there was a need for such a service which was negatived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcap Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Nope... not on these... Ah. Oh well. Not on these Roger - they are air over hydraulic so if the air fails you can still stop the beast - but the pedal effort is rather a lot!!! oho. makes sense put that way. OK, thanks for the explanation Sorry to hear it, anyhow, I always thought Stollies were rather unique and excellent ideas, but given your comments, they must've been a right royal pain to keep operational back in the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Whats interesting me is it's the SAME brake circuit every time - thus the same 3 wheels. If it were just duff seals I would expect the odds against them being all on one circuit stacked against! The REME guys at the Fort go white every time the words "Stalwart" and "Problem are mentioned - Neil, There is a distinct possibility that there could be one or more seals in either the master cylinder or Airpak, that are not compatable with mineral oil, ie. for normal brake fluids. As the seals for the master cylinder are no different in design to a normal fluid type, also, I know of some applications where Airpaks are used, which work with brake fluid. ( seals used with wrong fluid can swell ). Another common fault that will lock a brake on, is a sticking piston valve in the Airpak. My guess is your "REME guys" at the fort, might not have experience of Stalwarts, hence why they are reluctant :-D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Probably of no use but I had a brake problem on the Dodge. All 4 brakes locked after a while driving and braking. When it stood still for a while they loosened. It turned out to be in the mastercilinder, it did get the fuid in the lines but it didn't return. When 1 brake dragged it heated the brakefluid forcing the other wheelcilinders tight. When I loosened the freeplay in thge mastercilinder it was ok. The fluid was able to return into the mastercilinder. No problems since (knock wood). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Not on these Roger - they are air over hydraulic so if the air fails you can still stop the beast - but the pedal effort is rather a lot!!! The advice and the offer is much appreciated. But right now I'm so cheesed I just want a "Fixed" solution. rather than taking everything apart and rebuilding it in the hope I find the issue. Apart from anything else money isn't infinite right now as I'm out of work and don't get a penny in benefits. Stripping down each wheel station you estimated at £80/station - thats nigh on £500 just for the calipers. Let alone the hoses and master cylinders and oil. Whats interesting me is it's the SAME brake circuit every time - thus the same 3 wheels. If it were just duff seals I would expect the odds against them being all on one circuit stacked against! If you recall - when we bled the clutch at the Fort a lot of crap came out of the lines - I'm wondering if the same is in the brake circuits and is screwing up one of the master cylinders? It was when RR played with the M/C the second time that things started working - and we did a fair bit of bumping about over the weekend and on Monday, enough maybe to disturb loose muck lieing in the lines? This has been bugging me ever since yesterday morning and I'm fairly sure that is where the issue is. But I would like an expert opinion before any form of work is started as, like I said, money is most definitely finite until I can find another job. The REME guys at the Fort go white every time the words "Stalwart" and "Problem are mentioned - although Big Jim did say he wopuld have a look at it after the Grays Legion event thats on today - however it won't be going there so....... As regards the http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=12247 thread - read it carefully, at no time did I ever say I was going to be the one weilding the spanners.. All I asked was if there was a need for such a service which was negatived. Neil Do the brakes release over time, and over what amount of time. When the air is gone do they release. If it releases over time but not with the air gone then you have a hydraulic fault, and it is likely at the master cylinder end as it affects all brakes in that system...the effect of say a seal having become dislodged and maybe blocking the return/release part of the master cylinder. or an expanded seal due to incorrect fluid...cant imagine its that thought..... If the brakes release as soon as the air is gone then look to an air fault...yours is a MK2 so it should be relatively easy to find (in stalwart terms anyway) I will look at my manuals today and offer more info...if anyone is on the right track richards note must be worth studying...but it is highly unlikely to be a brake cailliper problem if all three brakes stay on..could be dirt I suppose...you need to treat your stolly as i do mine, give her a good shakle out every time you reun her, I do my stoppies regularly just to make sure the brakes get a good slamming, and never stick...only ever had oneseal go...and that is on the only cailper that i had to strip due to seizing in the early days of ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Sumfink else you could try.............. Are there any flexible brake pipes between the master cylinder and the airpack......... if there are; they have on many occasions become blocked with rubber debris which has come from inside the flexi hose. Where the pipe is swaged , ie compressed on to the metal fixing, it is very common for blockages to form at this point as the bore is very narrow. If a hose between the master cylinder and air pack is blocked, it could hold enough pressure in the system to activate the reaction valve in the airpack. This is assuming that the hydraulic master is connected directly to the brake pedal. The way to find out is to slacken them off very slightly to allow the pressure to escape. (At the end furthest from the master cylinder) Don't undo them completely, otherwise you will have to bleed the brakes again. Hope this is of some help to you. Jus' tryin ta be helpful. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Ah well - back from a weeks R&R in the New Forest! Got to go to the Job Centre tomorrow as they threw a mega-hissy fit whilst away (seems I was supposed to fill in a whole raft of forms to book the week off ??? - only no one told me before I went) - once things have taken their course there I can get over the bunker and start prodding around!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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