HELLfromHEAVEN_398TH Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Hello all! My name is Dom and i'm new to forums but i'm hoping that is going to change! I'm in need of help finding information on my latest purchase, a Lister generator unit on a 4 wheel 5 ton trailer. This is a new addition to my collection and i don't know much about it yet! I'm really hoping that somebody might be able to help me find out more! I'm told it is an ex RAF runway light backup generator unit but i have nothing to confirm this. It is mostly complete and in a working condition. She starts first time and has been used for the last 5 years to power a farm workshop. I intend to restore the whole unit over time but the priority is to rebuild the entire wooden framework, re sheet the exterior and get the cabin solid and weatherproof again. I have some experience at this so i'm not too daunted by it. 50% of the wood frame is complete enough to make patterns from and most of the aluminium mouldings are available locally. The wooden floor and trailer chassis are solid like new as they have been soaked in Diesel most of it's life! 95% of the original parts are present and still just about fitted (or hanging on for dear life) so i'm hoping for a good end result! The thing i need help with is the electrical system. Although it is working and putting out power, it has been altered at some stage and a modern main switch fitted. If you have any knowledge on these old generator electrical systems, please contact me as i'm going in blind at the moment! I also need a better set of 10.50 13 tyres as mine are a bit sketchy! I know they are hens teeth now but if anyone does have any going i will be interested! I'm also after information on all the history of the unit but i don't know how to go about finding these things out. Does anyone have any photos of one of these? I'm going to list all the information from the data plates below, if anyone can help in any way with identifying these numbers, dates ect PLEASE contact me! The number 27 is screwed to the front of the cabin which i assume means it's unit number 27? The Trailer itself has two ID plates, one on the drawbar and one on the chassis. The one on the drawbar reads: -MINISTRY OF SUPPLY W.V.3- -VEHICLE NUMBER: VME 1 1- -CHASSIS NUMBER 19966 The plate on the chassis reads: -TRAILER CHASSIS 5 TON 4 WHEEL- -CONT. NO: 23/5884- -CHASSIS: 19955- -W.D. X586 7156- You may notice that the chassis number appears as 19955 on the chassis plate but appears as 19966 on the drawbar! I'm guessing this was a mistake when the plates were stamped but it does confuse things a little! The 55 on the trailer chassis plate does look like 66 at a glance but is definately 55 on close inspection. I suspect the drawbar plate from the ministry of supply was fitted after the plate on the chassis itself. whoever stamped it may have not looked closely at the chassis plate and thought it was 66. what does anyone else think has happened here, which is most likely to be the true chassis number? There is a plate inside the cabin screwed to the top of the front end wall which reads: -BODY NUMBER 109- -P&S MOTORS, TEDDINGTON, MIDDLESEX- There are two plates screwed to the Generator unit, one in the middle where the main coils are and one at the end where the brushes are: the one in the middle reads: -A M- -REF NO: 42X/156- -SERIAL NUMBER: 260214/240/S768- The one on the brush end reads: -A M- -REF NO. 42X/160- -SERIAL NUMBER: 560214/2436.786- The plate on the engine block reads: -RA LISTER AND CO LTD- -NO: 60/19702- -SPEC 38429A- -RPM 1000- ANYTHING is good information for me right now as i'm starting from nothing. I have put all this information and photographs of the unit in it's present condition, in my photo album, feel free to have a look and leave comments, she looks a sorry state at the moment but there's life in the old girl yet! MORE PHOTOS IN MY PICTURE ALBUM Quote
Tony B Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) I recognise that tow hitch! the same as the WS 10 trailer and the generator appears to be the same. Got any more photos of the beast? Is there by any chance a slid panel that drops to alow the genny to slide out on a skid? I also recognise tghe roof arch style. Edited April 22, 2009 by Tony B Quote
les freathy Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Certainly appears to be ex RAF, had a look in my PW data files but nothing there, the frame looks to be the standard 5 ton trailer issued to both army and RAF. As it looks RAF prehaps Ted may have something on it Quote
ted angus Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Morning gents, Les, the gene is definately RAF as it has an RAF stores ref number 42X 156 & 160 one number could be the gene the other the control panel ??? The trailer has an WD i.e. Army reg number X5867156. ???? I wouldn't be as bold as to say this is NOT what you have been told; but I feel this is 2 totally unrelated items married together. Runway lighting standy sets were normally not to far from the ATC tower or watch office in a shed or hut. It certainly looks the size of set for a back up as often on standby power not all lamps were illuminated. Tony you mention a W S 10 trailer sorry I don't have a clue what on is. Its certainly a very interesting bit of kit. I would be looking for evidence that they started out as one item. Is there evidence of floor reinforcment for the skids, was the body built with ventilation louvres in the correct place fuel tank ! exhaust out let that sort of thing. Les I am currently trying to get access to the 1944 site record plan of a certain airfield that may reveal the standard building type used to house standby sets. TED Very interesting indeed TED Quote
ted angus Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Of course the alternate original use for the gene set could have been as part of a comms /radar convoy mounted in a Matador, Austin K6, FWD HAR 1 , FWD SU-COE or Fordson WOT1 Is there a KVA rating on the panel anywhere. I can tell you 42X 150 was a Lister 20KVA set, TED Quote
Tony B Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Sorry Ted, another thread. WS10 was line of sight radio system, speciffically developed for Montgomery in Europe. About 150 units were built, looks like most then went across to Australia for use in the nuclear testing area. One has survived (Known so far) in UK. We are restoring it. Quote
jmclaughlin1 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Hello all!My name is Dom and i'm new to forums but i'm hoping that is going to change! I'm in need of help finding information on my latest purchase, a Lister generator unit on a 4 wheel 5 ton trailer. This is a new addition to my collection and i don't know much about it yet! I'm really hoping that somebody might be able to help me find out more! I'm told it is an ex RAF runway light backup generator unit but i have nothing to confirm this. It is mostly complete and in a working condition. She starts first time and has been used for the last 5 years to power a farm workshop. I intend to restore the whole unit over time but the priority is to rebuild the entire wooden framework, re sheet the exterior and get the cabin solid and weatherproof again. I have some experience at this so i'm not too daunted by it. 50% of the wood frame is complete enough to make patterns from and most of the aluminium mouldings are available locally. The wooden floor and trailer chassis are solid like new as they have been soaked in Diesel most of it's life! 95% of the original parts are present and still just about fitted (or hanging on for dear life) so i'm hoping for a good end result! The thing i need help with is the electrical system. Although it is working and putting out power, it has been altered at some stage and a modern main switch fitted. If you have any knowledge on these old generator electrical systems, please contact me as i'm going in blind at the moment! I also need a better set of 10.50 13 tyres as mine are a bit sketchy! I know they are hens teeth now but if anyone does have any going i will be interested! I'm also after information on all the history of the unit but i don't know how to go about finding these things out. Does anyone have any photos of one of these? I'm going to list all the information from the data plates below, if anyone can help in any way with identifying these numbers, dates ect PLEASE contact me! The number 27 is screwed to the front of the cabin which i assume means it's unit number 27? The Trailer itself has two ID plates, one on the drawbar and one on the chassis. The one on the drawbar reads: -MINISTRY OF SUPPLY W.V.3- -VEHICLE NUMBER: VME 1 1- -CHASSIS NUMBER 19966 The plate on the chassis reads: -TRAILER CHASSIS 5 TON 4 WHEEL- -CONT. NO: 23/5884- -CHASSIS: 19955- -W.D. X586 7156- You may notice that the chassis number appears as 19955 on the chassis plate but appears as 19966 on the drawbar! I'm guessing this was a mistake when the plates were stamped but it does confuse things a little! The 55 on the trailer chassis plate does look like 66 at a glance but is definately 55 on close inspection. I suspect the drawbar plate from the ministry of supply was fitted after the plate on the chassis itself. whoever stamped it may have not looked closely at the chassis plate and thought it was 66. what does anyone else think has happened here, which is most likely to be the true chassis number? There is a plate inside the cabin screwed to the top of the front end wall which reads: -BODY NUMBER 109- -P&S MOTORS, TEDDINGTON, MIDDLESEX- There are two plates screwed to the Generator unit, one in the middle where the main coils are and one at the end where the brushes are: the one in the middle reads: -A M- -REF NO: 42X/156- -SERIAL NUMBER: 260214/240/S768- The one on the brush end reads: -A M- -REF NO. 42X/160- -SERIAL NUMBER: 560214/2436.786- The plate on the engine block reads: -RA LISTER AND CO LTD- -NO: 60/19702- -SPEC 38429A- -RPM 1000- ANYTHING is good information for me right now as i'm starting from nothing. I have put all this information and photographs of the unit in it's present condition, in my photo album, feel free to have a look and leave comments, she looks a sorry state at the moment but there's life in the old girl yet! MORE PHOTOS IN MY PICTURE ALBUM from the look of the radiator i would say the lister is a JPmodel if it runs at 1000 rmp it could be 110 DC set could you post a few pics of the engine Quote
HELLfromHEAVEN_398TH Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 I have spent the afternoon having a good look around and taking a lot more pictures which i have added to my photo album. As far as i can tell it was specially built for a generator unit. There are twin fuel tanks underneath and all plumbed into the cabin. There was a vacuum unit to suck the fuel up which is not currently fitted but is present. Also the exhaust stack and heat shield look like they were built to fit. I still can't find anything with a date on it! The whole engine and genny unit has been painted at some point in the green with red bits that you see in the pictures. The paint is flaking off in places and the original colour underneath is a dark olive drab colour. It is harder to tell the original exterior colour. It appears to be a grey colour, overpainted with an off white / beige. The whole thing has been painted at some point so there is very little original paint to go by! perhaps some of the new photos will help shed some light? MORE PHOTO'S ADDED TO MY ALBUM Quote
jmclaughlin1 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Hello all!My name is Dom and i'm new to forums but i'm hoping that is going to change! I'm in need of help finding information on my latest purchase, a Lister generator unit on a 4 wheel 5 ton trailer. This is a new addition to my collection and i don't know much about it yet! I'm really hoping that somebody might be able to help me find out more! I'm told it is an ex RAF runway light backup generator unit but i have nothing to confirm this. It is mostly complete and in a working condition. She starts first time and has been used for the last 5 years to power a farm workshop. I intend to restore the whole unit over time but the priority is to rebuild the entire wooden framework, re sheet the exterior and get the cabin solid and weatherproof again. I have some experience at this so i'm not too daunted by it. 50% of the wood frame is complete enough to make patterns from and most of the aluminium mouldings are available locally. The wooden floor and trailer chassis are solid like new as they have been soaked in Diesel most of it's life! 95% of the original parts are present and still just about fitted (or hanging on for dear life) so i'm hoping for a good end result! The thing i need help with is the electrical system. Although it is working and putting out power, it has been altered at some stage and a modern main switch fitted. If you have any knowledge on these old generator electrical systems, please contact me as i'm going in blind at the moment! I also need a better set of 10.50 13 tyres as mine are a bit sketchy! I know they are hens teeth now but if anyone does have any going i will be interested! I'm also after information on all the history of the unit but i don't know how to go about finding these things out. Does anyone have any photos of one of these? I'm going to list all the information from the data plates below, if anyone can help in any way with identifying these numbers, dates ect PLEASE contact me! The number 27 is screwed to the front of the cabin which i assume means it's unit number 27? The Trailer itself has two ID plates, one on the drawbar and one on the chassis. The one on the drawbar reads: -MINISTRY OF SUPPLY W.V.3- -VEHICLE NUMBER: VME 1 1- -CHASSIS NUMBER 19966 The plate on the chassis reads: -TRAILER CHASSIS 5 TON 4 WHEEL- -CONT. NO: 23/5884- -CHASSIS: 19955- -W.D. X586 7156- You may notice that the chassis number appears as 19955 on the chassis plate but appears as 19966 on the drawbar! I'm guessing this was a mistake when the plates were stamped but it does confuse things a little! The 55 on the trailer chassis plate does look like 66 at a glance but is definately 55 on close inspection. I suspect the drawbar plate from the ministry of supply was fitted after the plate on the chassis itself. whoever stamped it may have not looked closely at the chassis plate and thought it was 66. what does anyone else think has happened here, which is most likely to be the true chassis number? There is a plate inside the cabin screwed to the top of the front end wall which reads: -BODY NUMBER 109- -P&S MOTORS, TEDDINGTON, MIDDLESEX- There are two plates screwed to the Generator unit, one in the middle where the main coils are and one at the end where the brushes are: the one in the middle reads: -A M- -REF NO: 42X/156- -SERIAL NUMBER: 260214/240/S768- The one on the brush end reads: -A M- -REF NO. 42X/160- -SERIAL NUMBER: 560214/2436.786- The plate on the engine block reads: -RA LISTER AND CO LTD- -NO: 60/19702- -SPEC 38429A- -RPM 1000- ANYTHING is good information for me right now as i'm starting from nothing. I have put all this information and photographs of the unit in it's present condition, in my photo album, feel free to have a look and leave comments, she looks a sorry state at the moment but there's life in the old girl yet! MORE PHOTOS IN MY PICTURE ALBUM your engine is a lister JP4 the red painted screws are screwed in to start when the engine is running you screw them out hope this helps Quote
ted angus Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 JP 4 was the model used in the RAF types I mentioned earlier, Picture attached. Just had a good look at your album , The more pictures I see the more I am convinced this is a 2nd or even 3rd life marriage. An ex Army trailer with an ex RAF gen set. The area under the engine is a trap for oil and debris, the ironwork onto which it is mounted is showing signs of unused holes. Most gen set of that size and age had a high mounted fuel tank to gravity feed the engine. the high tank would be manually replened from drums using a hand pump . My thought is ; this is a marriage that has seen a lot of hard work to provide a moblie generator, with additional/replacement electrical items to keep it running in its civillian role ?????????? TED Quote
Richard Farrant Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 The trailer as already pointed out, has an Army census number dating from around 1944, give or take a year I would think. Trailer was part of a contract for 5 ton, 4 wheeled General Service cargo type and made by Eagle Trailers. From looking at the body work details, I would say this trailer has been rebodied to house the ex-RAF generator, but from the view of the rear, I would doubt it was converted for the military, my thoughts are perhaps for the Post Office Telephones, BBC, etc. The plate showing P & S Motors of Teddington..................they would appear to be still in business, maybe someone there could throw light on this, I am guessing that it was rebodied by them for its new role in the 1950's. Quote
HELLfromHEAVEN_398TH Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) Sorry to prove you wrong Ted but i think i've just hit the nail on the head! I've just found this on a website! "Most of the Lister generating sets supplied the War Department were built at their Dursley factory to one of a handful of standard designs but there were exceptions. For example, the Air Ministry Mk.2 20kVA set shown here was not assembled in Dursley because Lister provided only the 38/4 engine and bed. The electrical end consists of a Metropolitan-Vickers 20kVA 3-phase alternator equipped with a comprehensive switchboard including Tonum automatic carbon pile regulator. The principal application of this model was to power Type 14 Search Radar units and similar, for which purpose the switchboard was specifically arranged. A Leyland Hippo lorry would carry the generator as part of the vehicle complement making up the radar outfit codenamed "Vast Convoy". These sets were designed to survive under adverse conditions; Hand-starting capability made operation independent of troublesome batteries; the radiator was generously proportioned to enable continuous running at full power in high ambient temperatures; a variable compression system enabled reliable starting in the cold. The generator windings were insulated to a high specification and protected from dirt ingress by an air filter. The electrical output is rather unusual and specific to the application. Although the alternator has a three phase star-connected winding the phase-neutral voltage is only 132V, giving a phase-phase voltage of 230V for delta applications, therefore the star point is not brought out. The output of the set can be delivered into two equal 230V single phase loads sharing a common terminal, in a format neither strictly single or two-phase as a phase difference of 120 degrees exists between them. A transformer was provided amongst the switchgear to step up part of the output power to conventional 230 / 400 volt three phase configuration. I think i might have answered my own question! I still need more information, but atleast i know what it is now! The one in the picture was built in 1945 and is number 63. Mine is number 27 but i don't know how many were built in total. Edited April 23, 2009 by HELLfromHEAVEN_398TH i pressed the go button before i was ready! Quote
HELLfromHEAVEN_398TH Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 Thanks Richard, it's good to know the army census number dates from around 1944. I've done a little research and it turns out my engine was built around March/april 1944, plus or minus a month so that ties in nicely. As you can see from my previous post, i think i know exactly what it is now! I suppose there is a chance that it saw service towards the end of WW2, if it was indeed built in 1944????? I need to find out more!! Quote
HELLfromHEAVEN_398TH Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 RAF Section number, This information has been gained from the AP1086. Section: 42X 20KVA, 230-volt, S.P., 400-volt, 3-phase, Mark 2, generating set (mobile) with Lister diesel 38/4 engine (42AA) Generating sets (c/w engines) and stationary IC engines in ground equipment other than generating sets Quote
antarmike Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 http://www.anti-aircraft.co.uk/ListerJP4generator.html Quote
ted angus Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Sorry to prove you wrong Ted but i think i've just hit the nail on the head!I've just found this on a website! "Most of the Lister generating sets supplied the War Department were built at their Dursley factory to one of a handful of standard designs but there were exceptions. For example, the Air Ministry Mk.2 20kVA set shown here was not assembled in Dursley because Lister provided only the 38/4 engine and bed. The electrical end consists of a Metropolitan-Vickers 20kVA 3-phase alternator equipped with a comprehensive switchboard including Tonum automatic carbon pile regulator. The principal application of this model was to power Type 14 Search Radar units and similar, for which purpose the switchboard was specifically arranged. A Leyland Hippo lorry would carry the generator as part of the vehicle complement making up the radar outfit codenamed "Vast Convoy". These sets were designed to survive under adverse conditions; Hand-starting capability made operation independent of troublesome batteries; the radiator was generously proportioned to enable continuous running at full power in high ambient temperatures; a variable compression system enabled reliable starting in the cold. The generator windings were insulated to a high specification and protected from dirt ingress by an air filter. The electrical output is rather unusual and specific to the application. Although the alternator has a three phase star-connected winding the phase-neutral voltage is only 132V, giving a phase-phase voltage of 230V for delta applications, therefore the star point is not brought out. The output of the set can be delivered into two equal 230V single phase loads sharing a common terminal, in a format neither strictly single or two-phase as a phase difference of 120 degrees exists between them. A transformer was provided amongst the switchgear to step up part of the output power to conventional 230 / 400 volt three phase configuration. I think i might have answered my own question! I still need more information, but atleast i know what it is now! The one in the picture was built in 1945 and is number 63. Mine is number 27 but i don't know how many were built in total. You have left me totally confused If it was supplied to the War Dept it was for the Army The Air Ministry via MoS supplied the RAF ?? Type 14 was an RAF radar first introduced 44/45. The Leyland Hippo used in Radar Convoys would normally have been early 1950s. War Dept is not like the all incompassing MoD of today War Dept was ARMY Air Ministry was RAF I don't think you have answered your own question your quote starts "most Lister Sets supplied to the WD but there were exceptions For example ( i.e. an example of the exceptions) the AM MK2 ----- so the writer of the quote is citing an exception which is for AM, with final assembly at Metro Vickers' to support Type 14 radar (RAF) carried in a Leyland Hippo . You requote 42x which is an RAF stores ref if it was supplied to the WD it would not be 42x . TED Quote
ted angus Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 The answer to this is on Electrokinetca web site gallery : Firstly lets recap: We identified the trailer by it WD (ARMY) number and Richard from the WD number identified its original form and its contract; It was an Army cargo trailer. We have identified the Gen set and we know they were to support Type 14 Radar in RAF service. WE know from photos on the Electrokinetca web that the switchboard was modified to allow its use to power an X ray facility Also in the gallery is a photo of it in the livery of the NHS mass X ray unit they toured the country in the late 1940s early 1950s in an attempt to erradicate TB . So My conclusion is your gen set is as previously stated ex RAF Radar Convoy, the Trailer is an Ex Army cargo trailer. With modifications to both trailer and gen set they have been married together to provide a power trailer for an NHS mobile mass X ray unit Richard over to you TED ps that Electrokinetca site is difficult to enter ! Quote
HELLfromHEAVEN_398TH Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 My Grandad was on a special ops unit in Burma in 1945. He was with the RAF on a mobile Radar unit positioned between the front lines in what was technically no mans land. One of the vehicles supplied to his unit was an American DUKW fitted for radar operations by the RAF and operated by them. My point is that although the DUKW was origianally supplied to the army, it was modified by the RAF for this purpose and operated by the RAF. I'm guessing it's the same thing with the trailer. The war department number refers to an army trailer, taken by the RAF and fitted for use with the no2 genny set as mentioned, probably in 1944 (going by the engine number on the gen set and the WD number on the trailer chassis, and the specific use was to power the type 14 radar. The Leyland Hippo also entered service in 1944 and did make it into europe before the wars end. I don't know if these radar units were active with the leyland hippo from day one, that is something i will need to find out. In regards to anwering my own question, perhaps it is not fully answered yet. But my question was 'what is it and when was it built, what was it's purpose and is it ex RAF'. If the trailer shown on the Electrokinetca website was number 63 ,built in 1945 (going by engine number) and is exactly the same as mine then i would assume that mine, being number 27, was built in 1944. Type 14 radar units were introduced in 1944/45 which is exactly the dates that these units were built. i Don't yet know if mine was altered post was for X-ray operations, i will find out what modifications have been done and that will tell me more. It is more interesting than i originally thought though! I need to find out if these trailers saw service and if so, where and with what unit. Quote
Richard Farrant Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) Firstly lets recap: We identified the trailer by it WD (ARMY) number and Richard from the WD number identified its original form and its contract; It was an Army cargo trailer. WE know from photos on the Electrokinetca web that the switchboard was modified to allow its use to power an X ray facility Also in the gallery is a photo of it in the livery of the NHS mass X ray unit they toured the country in the late 1940s early 1950s in an attempt to erradicate TB . So My conclusion is your gen set is as previously stated ex RAF Radar Convoy, the Trailer is an Ex Army cargo trailer. With modifications to both trailer and gen set they have been married together to provide a power trailer for an NHS mobile mass X ray unit Richard over to you Ted, I knew that bodywork was familiar and also noted rear light, reflectors and number plate arrangement was very un-military and also post war. These trailers were matched up with the NHS Leyland Beavers of early 1950's model. A number of these lorries made it into preservation, but rebodied as flat platform. It is obvious now that surplus equipment was used to make up this power trailer for the National Health Service, hence a mix of Air Ministry and WD items. It is very unlikely that this combination of trailer and genny was in RAF service, as Ted has also pointed out. Edited April 23, 2009 by Richard Farrant Quote
ted angus Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 My Grandad was on a special ops unit in Burma in 1945. He was with the RAF on a mobile Radar unit positioned between the front lines in what was technically no mans land. One of the vehicles supplied to his unit was an American DUKW fitted for radar operations by the RAF and operated by them. My point is that although the DUKW was origianally supplied to the army, it was modified by the RAF for this purpose and operated by the RAF. I'm guessing it's the same thing with the trailer. The war department number refers to an army trailer, taken by the RAF and fitted for use with the no2 genny set as mentioned, probably in 1944 (going by the engine number on the gen set and the WD number on the trailer chassis, and the specific use was to power the type 14 radar. The Leyland Hippo also entered service in 1944 and did make it into europe before the wars end. I don't know if these radar units were active with the leyland hippo from day one, that is something i will need to find out. In regards to anwering my own question, perhaps it is not fully answered yet. But my question was 'what is it and when was it built, what was it's purpose and is it ex RAF'. If the trailer shown on the Electrokinetca website was number 63 ,built in 1945 (going by engine number) and is exactly the same as mine then i would assume that mine, being number 27, was built in 1944. Type 14 radar units were introduced in 1944/45 which is exactly the dates that these units were built. i Don't yet know if mine was altered post was for X-ray operations, i will find out what modifications have been done and that will tell me more. It is more interesting than i originally thought though! I need to find out if these trailers saw service and if so, where and with what unit. Dom, Sorry, with all respect to operations in the Far East things were it little more regimented in Europe. I don't subscribe to your theory : yes equipment moved between the RAF and Army, I have seen both in WW2 info and during my own service, one service running on anothers number plates . If this was a case of a gen set being bolted onto a flat bed trailer fair enough, but this trailer was obviously bespoke ; a contract would have been raised and at that time a plate added to give it its new identity. It would also have had the Army plate removed because it would no longer have been the type of trailer noted on the WD plate. You can find the history of the type 14 on various sites. In its proto mobile form it was initially mounted on a trailer for use in UK, then as preperations for D Day took place Radar units to equip 83 & 84 groups were formed, their equipment being purpose procured. . The type 14 for these convoys was mounted on Austin K6 6x4 chassis, a handful may have migrated to FWD HAR 1 chassis. The gen set stores ref 42X 150 appears to have been soley procured for these convoys especially the type 14. I listed in message 5 the chassis that carried these sets; note in thread 5 I also quoted 42X 150 as the stores ref for the sets built to support the type 14 All this infiormation was from RAF records I hold. The MK1 &11 Leyland Hippo that saw service with the RAF in WW2 was not recorded as being used in these radar convoys, it was a 10ton load carrier used by the RAF MT companies especially in the UK , middle east and later Europe. In the early 1950s the RAF aquired a new generation of mobile radars, this is where the Leyland Hippo comes into the equation The next generation of Hippo was the type 19H/7 ( to the layman a Mk 3) virtually every truck in the new generation convoys was a Hippo except the power supply vehicle. The new type 14 Mk 7 (RVT 501 Mk 1) & 8 (RVT type 502 Mk1), plus the type 13 (MK6 & 7) and the type 15 (MK 5) were all mounted on Hippos, EACH required a 50kva to fullfill its needs. These gen sets were Leyland Magnicons, mounted in Signal Shells type P MK1 on Matador chassis they were designated RVT type 550 MK1. So at this point the 20KVA mounted in the chassis I have mentioned would have been redundant for their procured purpose and would have been availible for transfer to other purposes including with budgetery adjustment transfer to other ministrys. The Hippo mounted radar convoys were still at their peak when I joined in in 1964, The Matadors with the 50 KVA and other size gen sets were still in the contingency stores in Cyprus when I was there at the beginning of the civil war in 1974; indeed we were still using some of the demounted sets from the Matadors in Germany in the early 1990s. I digress I will end my contribution to this thread now. Richard gave you the contract history of your trailer, I have given you a potted history of the 20KVa set and the type 14. I can see you are clinging to the hope that your trailer in its current form is ex RAF, I think Richard and I have given you enough evidence based on official records to convince you that it was a marriage conducted in the early 1950 to produce a trailer mounted gen set for the NHS. Please don't put total belief in things such as Electrokinetica , some very usefull info but lots of it is far from accurate its just the work of well intentioned enthusiasts. I would be interested to learn where you got the info re Hippos and vast convoys came from TED Quote
HELLfromHEAVEN_398TH Posted April 24, 2009 Author Posted April 24, 2009 Ok, i give in, you are all right, i was wrong! I get it now, must have been the diesel fumes clouding my vision. So, it's a 1944ish army issued 5 ton trailer chassis. The generator set on the rails is 1944ish and was built to power a type 14 radar. The two were obtained as surplus sometime in the late 40s / early 50s and the whole lot was altered and built into a coach built body for the specific use of powering the mobile x-ray units scanning for TB. That would explain the off white paint, looks very much like the one in the photo below! Oh well, nothing like a 4 day dream to get the blood flowing! Thnks to everyone for their time and help, i'm sorry if i was stubborn! I bought the thing as part of a pair, The other being a 3 cylinder lister diesel with a 110v genny dated 1939. I knew the other was probably a searchlight genny but i had no idea what this one was. they are both runners and i bought them to power my workshop up my field as they will give me more than enough power for welders/compressor ect. Sadly it is not in itself, a military vehicle as a whole but i will rebuild it anyway because it seems a shame not to. Besides, it's a very useful mobile generator! As a point of interest, i spoke to my Grandad today. He was posted to mobile radar operations in india in 1943. They were put together as a unit in Bombay but there was no equipment for them to use. They were given the task of putting together an amphibious mobile radar unit using whatever they could find. They ended up custom fitting their equiment into a DUKW and a couple of amphibious jeeps. If anyone can find anymore information on that it would be most interesting! I'm now going to go and sit in the corner with my big pointy "D" hat on Thanks again everyone, i know a lot more now than i did 4 days ago which was the object of the exercise! Quote
ted angus Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Dom no D hats no sitting in corners you said in your opening message you were new to the forums, digging into things and getting answers are a fantastic aspect of them. I served a lifetime man & boy in the RAF in the General Engineering and MT worlds but everyday I learn something new, I have gleaned a lot of knowledge and made some likeminded cyber friends. Where did you get your info re the Hippos ? Keep us posted re the gen set We have all learnt something thing from this thread i.e. where some of the gen sets went when the RAF had no future requirement. REGARDS TED currently raging at this useless governments treatment of the Gurkhas !! Quote
Tony B Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 I can't see the need for embarresment. Learnty a whiole lot of new things. Its a whole new thing, what happens to equipment after service life. Quote
Lucien Nunes Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Sorry to bump the thread but I'm the owner of the 20kVA Mk.2 generator in unit No.63 at Electrokinetica and it's all interesting reading. I'm new here, so I'll start by saying hello and thanks for all the info! Ted, you make a good point that our blurb isn't 100% trustworthy - I am the well-intentioned enthusiast who wrote almost every word on that site and I can't be expert at everything ;-) I put in a disclaimer to that effect and an invitation for corrections but so far no-one has sent me any - so don't be shy, tell me what's up and I'll fix it! The reference to the Hippo came from my early investigations - someone sent some dingy pics that purported to show this set but were presumably carrying later outfits supplied by Magnicons. Also just noticed the ungrammatical nonsense at the beginning and the jumbled reference to 'WD sets' which I'll correct asap. The site is due a major update and expansion soon, for them wot's interested in leccy stuff. Including Dominic's the total number of 20kVA Mk.2 sets I have found in preservation is six, although his is the only other one in a trailer. One was used as a standby at the Tower of London, another may still be on its original transport but I haven't seen it for many years. For a clearer view of one of the modified army trailers in its civilian role, here's a pic of an MRU on the move: http://www.workinglives.org.uk/show_item.asp?int_category=6&int_sub_category=43&int_item_id=328 I will be starting restoration of our searchlight set in June, with the aim of getting it out to a few events. Will need some advice about the trailer in due course but it's not in too bad a shape. Cheers and thanks for helping our collective generating cause. Lucien Quote
ted angus Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Lucien, please don't think my comment was meant to be derogatory, but I made the statement as part of the effort to convince Dom that his trailer and its contents were not as he was told. If it wasn't for "well intentioned enthusiasts" such as yourself these forums would be far less interesting. I have added your site to my favourites and when time allows I delve further. Keep up the good work. If you have any further illustrations of the gen set in RAF service extracts from APs etc I would be very interested thanks and best wishes TED Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.