FRANCE BANS MILITARY VEHICLES

[Mark]

As from November 2006 our french friends are going to ban military vehicles from their roads (please see Milweb for more info) this is going to have a BIG impact on our trips abroad and events there, hopefully more information will be coming out soon.

 

http://www.milweb.net/News/france/

 

Please look at this link

[Jack]

Had something like this in an email this morning. I took it that this was someone taking the p*** or is that someone in the French Parliament trying to make a name for themselves................

 

Here is what had this morning;

 

 

Salut toute la monde, evidently, France has just passed a law which has made all military vehicles in private hands illegal. They must all be turned in for destuction in 2006. Mon Dieu, what next. Here's a letter I recieved about it:

 

Please after read this message, if you can transmit it to every Pathfinder news letter member's and more.

 

Dear comrads, We need you...I have big sadness to announce you that the French Government with fact to vote for a law which is going to forbid the detention of the military vehicules by individuals persons. All Military vehicules (Jeeps, Dodges, Harleys, GMC, Half track Shermann etc etc etc) are now qualified like war weapon and if owners does not acquire the approval for own them, the totality of the historical vehicules in France must ne delayed in the Government for destruction in year 2006.

 

Us, French collectors individual or members of assosiations, like the

FFMVCG are absolutely under the impact of such decide measure by our minister of the interieur, without cooperation with French collectors'

associations. MVCG France try to acquire some changements for application of this law and we come to ask our friends help.

 

If you can write to everybody, Museum, Ambassy, Deputy, Prime Minister for an intervention Near Jacques Chirac or Nicolas Sarkozy for require to not to leave destroy all the U.S., U.K, CDN, French Historical Heritage.

 

For the memory of our come friends who gaven theyre life for France and Free Europe 62 years ago. Thanks to every body for your help and of your supports in our battle. Truth fights against the free individual propriete and a very sad recall at the black o'clock of the Republique.

 

Nous avons perdu une Bataille mais nous n'avons pas perdu la guerre !!!

 

Charles de Gaulle _ 18 juin 1940

 

------------------------------------------

[Guest matt]

There's a lot of discussion about this over on G503.com.this is a sad situation indeed and there is the danger of it spreading to other countries in Europe.

 

Matt.

[Richard Grosvenor]

Hello,

I can't see any justification for this ban. It just seems completely senseless. So France will ban anyone from owning a MV, even Jeeps and the like? I presume an Ex-Military Land Rover will also be banned but a civilian LR, would be OK?

Will the next step be to ban the ownership of old cars and lorries? And then, what next, old buildings!?

I can just about see the logic in banning the use (on public Highways) of track laying vehicles, but to destroy historically important vehicles that fought to ensure future generations freedom's, that is totally wrong!

Wars (and history) happened. I've heard that in schools WW2 is only touched on, as if it didn't really happen. I suppose because we now have a unified Europe (not!)

 

What about museum piece's, will they also be banned and destroyed?

 

There is one possible reason for this;

"How many Frenchman does it take to defend Paris from invasion? "

" No-one knows, no Frenchman has ever tried to defend Paris!!!"

 

Regards

Richard

[Jack]

Just not sure about this one, is it April the 1st already?

 

But from a business point of few, this really does present some serious business opportunities as I would imagine a lot of vehicles 'would' be put on the open market, which means that there would be a flood of MV's -which means that the price will drop.

 

The only way to tell is to keep an eye on Milweb.

[tyler]

Hi, All I can say IF it does happen whats going to happen to their tourism?

 

Tyler.

[Marmite!!]

Just not sure about this one, is it April the 1st already?

 

But from a business point of few, this really does present some serious business opportunities as I would imagine a lot of vehicles 'would' be put on the open market, which means that there would be a flood of MV's -which means that the price will drop.

 

The only way to tell is to keep an eye on Milweb.

 

Export is not an option for the French, read below, from another forum>>

 

This is indeed true and quite worrisome. I spent the week-end at the Paric Antic Car Show and talked with the President of FFVE, the French Federation of Historic Vehicles. This Federation consolidates the 950 historical vehicles (military and civilian) clubs, which represents 15000 collectors. The MVCG (Military Vehicle Collector Group) mentioned in your email is part of the FFVE. The FFVE President is in direct contact with French authorities to address this issue.

 

Here is the story

 

A recently enacted law (Nov 2005), called "loi sur la securite interieure" (i.e. interior security law) has organized weapons into 8 groups; from group 8 (collector and historical neutralized arms) to group 1 (missiles and modern military weapons). For reasons still unknown to us, all military vehicles (land, air, sea) are in group 2. This includes, as mentioned in your email, any land vehicle designed for military use (i.e. GMC, Dodge, Jeep, but also Hummers, ...).

 

French law requires any one who wants to own a group 2 weapon (i.e. 38 or 45 hand guns, rifles,...) to file a demand with the Law Enforcement Authorities. Authorizations are very seldom granted and now most fire arms users join shooting range clubs where they find guns for rent. It is likely that obtaining an Authorization to own a half-track, but also a jeep, will be quite difficult. If authorization is not granted by the end of October 2006, the vehicle must be sold to someone who has the authorization, or turned down to French authorities for destruction.

 

When the law was initially drafted, it stated that MV could not be used in public roads, except during special cerimonies, with police escort. Fortunately, the FFVE got this issue resolved. But the following requirements remained:

- all vehicles must be kept locked in a secure garage (i.e. no parking in the street unattended)

- extra measures must be taken to prevent anyone starting the vehicle (simple ignition key is not enough)

 

This law is currently legally challenged by the FFVE, but that's what they have been doing for the last two years with little success. If no resolution is found within the next few months, all our vehicles could end up in museums (sale value close to nothing) or destroyed. The law limits export and import transaction, so selling to a foreign buyer is hardly an option.

 

This is not good news and we all wait for a law reversal with anxiety. I will let you know more about it.

[Marmite!!]

Ok done a bit of research & accourding to the Le Fédération Française des Véhicules d'Epoque. web site (The French Federation of the Vehicles of Time.) http://www.ffve.org/ it's true below is a the original text & translation from their site, the translation may be a bit ragged as I use a translation program.

 

******************

 

 

 

 

Many Collectors wondered about the late publication of the decree n°2005-1463 of

November 23,2005 coming pursuant to the law n°2003-239 from the March 18,2003 called on “interior safety”.

 

Indeed, six articles of this decree (bearing on the weapons) more particularly relate to the vehicles, ships and aircraft of military collection of origin, in particular article 8 which regards them as weaponries of 2nd category and subjects their owner to the very strict mode of the preliminary authorization for any acquisition or detention.

 

However, the weapons of 2nd category are defined in the article L. 2331-1 of the Code of defense as being the “materials intended to carry or use with the combat the weapons with fire”.

 

Article 2 of the decree n°95-589 of the May 6,1995 specifies that they are for the terrestrial vehicles the “tanks, armoured vehicles, like their shielding and their turrets”, but also, of the “not armoured vehicles equipped at station fixes or provide with a special device allowing the assembly or the transport of weapon”.

 

Moreover, the decree of the November 20,1991 fixing the list of the weaponries and comparable additions under the heading “category D - Tanks and military vehicles terrestrial”, a a whole series of various vehicles such as: “

 

a) Tanks and other military vehicles armed or armoured

b) Vehicles and specialized equipment of the genius

c) Vehicles especially designed or modified to allow the installation of a weapon

d) Vehicles especially designed or modified to allow the transport of the weapons or ammunition of categories A or B or the materials aimed to the subparagraph has above

e) Amphibious vehicles especially designed or modified for a military use

f) Mobile workshops of repair especially designed or modified for the maintenance of the military materials

g) Parts, components and specific accessories of the materials aimed to the subparagraphs has, B, C, D and E above

h) Tools specialized in manufacture of the materials aimed to the subparagraphs has, B, C, D and E above “

 

There is thus a risk that the concept of weaponry is extended to that of military material, like with that of vehicle of collection of military origin.

 

However, this extension would be particularly detrimental to the citizens devoting itself to the leisure of the collection of this type of vehicles, ships or aircraft old.

 

This is why, the French Federation of the Vehicles of Time (FFVE) and the F.F.M.V.C.G.F introduced proceedings for annulment of the decree n°2005-1463 in front of the Council of State and parallel to continue to act with determination so that the authorities recognize that they are true objects of collection at most raising of the 8th category “historical weapons and ammunition and of collection”.

 

 

 

The Office of the FFVE

 

****************************

Véhicules de Collection d'Origine Militaire

 

La FFVE communique

 

Rennes, le 4 février 2006

 

Beaucoup de Collectionneurs se sont interrogés sur la publication tardive du décret n°2005-1463 du

23 novembre 2005 venant en application de la loi n°2003-239 du 18 mars 2003 dite sur la " sécurité intérieure ".

 

En effet, six articles de ce décret (portant sur les armes) concernent plus particulièrement les véhicules, navires et aéronefs de collection d'origine militaire, notamment l'article 8 qui les considère comme des matériels de guerre de 2e catégorie et soumet leur propriétaire au régime très strict de l'autorisation préalable pour toute acquisition ou détention.

 

Or, les armes de 2e catégorie sont définies à l'article L. 2331-1 du Code de la défense comme étant les " matériels destinés à porter ou à utiliser au combat les armes à feu ".

 

L'article 2 du décret n°95-589 du 6 mai 1995 précise qu'il s'agit pour les véhicules terrestres des " chars de combat, véhicules blindés, ainsi que leur blindage et leurs tourelles ", mais aussi, des " véhicules non blindés équipés à poste fixe ou munis d'un dispositif spécial permettant le montage ou le transport d'arme ".

 

De plus, l'arrêté du 20 novembre 1991 fixant la liste des matériels de guerre et assimilés ajoute sous la rubrique " catégorie D - Chars de combat et véhicules militaires terrestres ", tout une série de véhicules divers tels que : "

 

a) Chars de combat et autres véhicules militaires armés ou blindés ;

b) Véhicules et équipements spécialisés du génie;

c) Véhicules spécialement conçus ou modifiés pour permettre l'installation d'une arme;

d) Véhicules spécialement conçus ou modifiés pour permettre le transport des armes ou munitions des catégories A ou B ou des matériels visés à l'alinéa a ci-dessus;

e) Véhicules amphibies spécialement conçus ou modifiés pour un usage militaire;

f) Ateliers mobiles de réparation spécialement conçus ou modifiés pour l'entretien des matériels militaires;

g) Parties, composants et accessoires spécifiques des matériels visés aux alinéas a, b, c, d et e ci-dessus;

h) Outillages spécialisés de fabrication des matériels visés aux alinéas a, b, c, d et e ci-dessus "

 

Il existe donc un risque que la notion de matériel de guerre soit étendue à celle de matériel militaire, ainsi qu'à celle de véhicule de collection d'origine militaire.

 

Or, cette extension serait particulièrement dommageable aux citoyens s'adonnant au loisir de la collection de ce type de véhicules, navires ou aéronefs anciens.

 

C'est pourquoi, la Fédération Française des Véhicules d'Epoque (FFVE) et la F.F.M.V.C.G.F. ont introduit un recours en annulation du décret n°2005-1463 devant le Conseil d'Etat et continuent parallèlement à agir avec détermination pour que les pouvoirs publics reconnaissent qu'il s'agit de véritables objets de collection relevant tout au plus de la 8e catégorie " armes et munitions historiques et de collection ".

 

 

 

Le Bureau de la FFVE

[Mark]

Ok here is an update from Nigel at Milweb

 

Nigel thanks for that, it would appear that the powers that be are insisting

of having all of the vehicles registered. This is nothing new, in fact the

materielle de guerre law has been in force since 1946 although it has been

somewhat relaxed.

 

If we have to register evrything eeven down to a gask mask (which is the law

at present) then we will have to do it, but the authorities will be creating

a rod for their own back.

 

The article is by and large alarmist. What it amounts to is a tighter

control of military items which include vehicles. The cannot cover vehicles

that areregistered in the EEC if they are registered in their own respective

country and the imported into France temporarily for an event. The

authorities cannot refuse entry and if the vehicle is decalred with the

necessary paperwork then there will be no problem. From my point of view it

might be atrifle inconvenient for some, but the serious organizers will not

be unduly concerned by this advent.

 

It would be helpful, if you were able to send me a printable copy with the

full text please Nigel, I can then take this up with Paris and perhaps we

can then do a short news item for milweb or something.

 

Kind regards

 

Gerald

[Mark]

Hi Again

This translation has been sent to me of the original release by the French authorities and explains the whole idea behind the action, any thoughts :?:

 

So what is going on in France?

Is it the end of civilization as we know it? Or will it all blow over and things continue as though nothing had happened? Can we safely sign up for Béthune and other excursions to France without putting our precious vehicles at risk of being confiscated and torched?

 

The Decree of 23 November 2005 has certainly got the French MV establishment very worried, especially as representations by influential, well connected and highly qualified people have evidently been brushed aside. I suspect the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Politicians are keen to be seen making a dramatic gesture, but don’t want to end up looking ridiculous.

 

Like the rut in a herd of deer, a series of staged clashes determine who is going to be top dog – sorry, top stag! The current Minister of the Interior (Home Secretary), Nicolas Sarkosy, is widely regarded as the heir apparent to Chirac and they hate eachother. Sounds familiar doesn’t it. The threat of terrorism has produced a string of extreme and controversial measures on both sides of the channel and a lot of the freedoms we have taken for granted risk being seriously curtailed in the backwash. Gesture politics is probably even more evident in France than here – witness the refusal of the new Mayor of Béthune to have anything to do with the liberation festival which was such a hallmark of Bernard Seux, his predecessor and rival, in spite of the pain and anguish this caused to traders in the city. So the way this legislation has been dealt with is probably down to point scoring on the national stage.

 

In reality, we may see little change apart from the paperwork, although the requirement to keep all military vehicles in secure storage may create problems for collectors who don’t have lockable garages or barns. It will all be down to how rigorously the new law is enforced and this will probably vary from prefecture to prefecture. Some prefects may make a gesture “pour encourager les autres”, but they are unlikely to risk bad publicity by being seen to persecute a harmless and generally popular hobby group. It could be bad news for rusting hulks fallen on bad times and sitting in fields, but I doubt if anyone will really bother that much. A bit like health & safety law in France, no one is breathing down your neck unless something goes horribly and publicly wrong.

 

I think we can safely assume that events like Béthune and Normandy will not change for us in any way, except perhaps greater care in ensuring that the Prefectures in all Departments visited are fully aware and on side. If we are undertaking solo trips, we will have to do that preparatory work ourselves or risk finding ourselves and our vehicles briefly incarcerated like Rex famously did in Arromanches all those years ago. Oh, and make sure you have your de-ac certificates with you!

 

Extract from Véhicules Militaire magazine, Feb 2006 issue

This article concerns the Decree of 23 November 2005, which affects the law applicable to war material, arms and munitions falling within the scope of the Defence Code and modifies Decree No 95-589 of 6th May 1995.

 

The reaction of Alain Quemener, president of FFMVCG

The sum total of the work done by the President of FFVE, by the President of the FFVE working party and by the Military Committee of FFVE, one of whose members is an eminent lawyer, is a long way from being proportionate to the outcome published in the decrees which affect the law applying to internal security. It is true that we have been through a very testing time, but the law now places new constraints upon us which treats as one all weapons, weapons systems and vehicles. Some of the articles detailed below shed some light on the effect of these constraints.

 

Art 8

Art 32.1 Dispositions under article 40 can be authorised for individuals to acquire and hold war materials, weapons and munitions:

- Persons exhibiting weapons, material and munitions of any category in museums which are open to the public;

- Other statutory bodies, public or private, of general interest or with a cultural, historic or scientific purpose, which contributes to the conservation, knowledge or study of weapons of war. For war Category 2 material, para 1, 2, 3, 4b cover equipment with provision for the attachment and detachment of additional fuel tanks and para 4c also for Category 3 material.

- Individuals who contribute, through assembling collections, to the conservation, knowledge or study of weapons of war. For war material in Category 2, see 2.

- II. Except for prototypes, authority to acquire and keep war material described in para 1 will not be given for material in Categories 2, 3 and 4. Exception will be made where the first example of the same type was placed in service 30 or more years before authority is requested and the last example was constructed at least twenty years before that date.

- III. By way of derogation of the provisions of Article 24, and subject to the provision for recovery available under Article 44, authority to to acquire and hold war materials given under para 1 is not time limited. When such authority relates to Category 2 material, the authorised keeper must advise the Prefect of each Department affected when any change in location is made.

 

Art 10

- Authorisations are made under Article 32 by the Prefect of the Department where the museum, establishment or individual holder is located. If the item comes under the heading of a historic monument, a decision can only be made after consultation with the Minister for Culture.

 

Art 11

- 8th: All applicants for authorisations under Article 32 must be accompanied by a description of measures taken to protect the material from theft or breach of conservation measures.

- All applicants other than museums must provide full documentation of the war material to be covered, notably the date the first example of the type entered service and the date the last one entered service, de-activation certificates for armament systems and arms carried. For Category 2, para 3, aircraft capable of flight, a copy of all valid airworthiness documentation must be included.

- For individuals, the supporting credentials of their legal representative, their location and business must be given.

On a positive note, collectors of military material are recognised and we can communicate freely with them.However, an application for authority to keep material which requires the production of documents as described above adds weight to the process and elevates it to the status of a grey card.

Besides, the crirteria covering the de-activation of weapons systems and arms carried are not defined here: they will be spelled out in a joint declaration by the Ministry of the Interior and the Ministry of Defence before March 2006. How then will armoured vehicles be treated?

 

Art 19

Art 55-1. Category 2 and 3 items described in Article 32 must be kept in a secure location.

Category 2 para 3 aircraft will be kept in a hangar unless their size prevents this.

Land vehicles, boats and aircraft must be rendered incapable of immediate operation.

Weapons systems and arms carried must be de-activated in accordance with the modalities prescribed by the Misitries of the Interior, Defence, Industry and Customs.

The security criteria for locations where material is stored are not defined, neither are the criteria for temporarily immobilising vehicles.

 

Art 22

IV. Where authority for the acquisition and retention of Category 2 and 3 war material under Article 32 is rescinded, unless they are subject to investigation for possible classification as a national treasure or historic monument, they will be consigned for destruction by an authorised dealer in war materials, as provided under Article L.2332-1 of the Defence Code. Altrnatively they may be exported under the provisions of Articles L.2335-2 and L.2335-3 of the Defence Code and the Decree of 29th January 1993 concerning items of heritage value, placed under movement constraints, or could be given permission to be acquired and retained under the provisions of Article L.622-16 of the Heritage Code if they are classed as historic monuments.

If a collector does not obtain authority to keep such material, he will not be allowed to do so. This might seem to be wholly or partially subject to the right to property, but a collector will never be able to understand the refusal to allow certrain material to be kept and the insistance in its destruction.

 

Art 25

h) Category 2 war material imported under a temporary permit from Customs, tracked vehicles which have to be carried on a transporter with pneumatic tyres will have to conform to Article R.314-1 of the Highway Code.

This provision is made to cover the importation of material from other EC countries under the terms provided by Council Regulation No 2913-92 of 12 October 1992; in applying the Customs Code, the importation of war materials will be treated as EC merchandise.

What about temporary exports? Does this mean that in future events such as Beltring, Tanks in Town or Bastogne will take place without the participation of French collectors?

The declassification of material falling in Categories 2 – 8 should have enables us to avoid this problem. But this proposal was rejected by the legislature. We do not know the reason for this refusal. The detail of how this decree would be applied should have been passed to us before publication. We were ready to contribute fresh proposals in the hope our position would be taken into account to a much greater extent than it has been.

In fact, the FFMVCG has constantly taken trouble to bring collectors of military material together to take a truly responsible attitude out of respect for remembrance. These blunders, inaccuracies and signal failures by the administration risk encouraging deviance rather than responsible and mature compliance. The work of FFVE and FFMVCG renowned for its quality and integrity is a t risk of being destroyed. These collections are certainly unusual, but they constitute a historical and industrial heritage without equal. The enormous effort, patience and commitment they require deserves better! Gentlemen legislators and administrators, it isonly through dialogue and consultation with those who have specialist knowledge that you gain respect for the law!

 

 

Emailed letter to mrmbers from Yves de Thomasson, Secretary of ‘Escadron de l’Histoire, 5/2/05

Dear Friends

As you will have read in the MV press, the law we have been fighting for the past three years has unfortunately been passed. This law places military vehicles in the same category as weapons and imposes obligations on their owners including the requirement to declare vehicles to the Prefect of Police, with the risk that they will be confiscated and destroyed.

 

Faced with this, the Escadron de l'Histoire has decided to follow the advice of the FFVE and FIVA, some of whose members belong to our club and whom we have been supporting.

 

Their summary of this grave situation appears below.

 

- Three years ago, the so-called “Sarkosy Law” on internal security was adopted, inspired mainly by the risk of terrorism. At that time the FFVE gained a last minute concession which recognised that clubs and collectors would be allowed to own former military vehicles when the original text envisaged that only state institutions would be recognised as owners.

 

Last November the Decree emerged giving effect to this law. In spite of all the efforts of FFVE, none of the amendments submitted to the assembly and the senate have been accepted, which means the decree poses a special threat to collectors.

 

The provisions which shocked us most were firstly the failure to distinguish between military vehicles and the weapons which they could carry, and then the absence of a date before which such vehicles could be considered obsolete and simply items for collection. Finally, no indication was given as to how any weapons mounted on these vehicles should be de-activated. Under these provisions, all former military vehicles, including Jeeps and motor bikes from the 2nd World War, or even the 1st, would be considered Category 2 weapons and thereby subject to the following disposal:

 

Any owner of this type of vehicle must declare it to the Prefect of Police of his Department and obtain a permit to keep it, which can be revoked at any time. The declaration must be made before November 2006. The vehicle must be kept in a place secured agauinst intrusion. Failure to make such a declaration or where a permit is refused by the Prefect, the government has the right to sieze the vehicle without financial compensation to the owner and to have it destroyed by the army.

 

It is therefore very urgent to act now and the FFVE plans to set in motion three courses of action which, depending on the outcome, should rendwer invalid the November 2006 time limit indicated above. These three actions would be:

- An appeal to the Council of State to annul the statute,

- Placing a new law before Parliament,

- As a last resort, an appeal to the President of the Republic

 

All these steps will cost a lot of money and the FFVE does not have the means to undertake all of them. That is why it is asking for a special contribution from all military vehicle clubs. The FFVE is asking the Escadron de l’Hiastoire to make a contribution of 500 euros.

 

The governing committee of EH is asking for this to be placed on the agenda of our next AGM, which will decide whether to pay this sum to FFVE with a view to protecting the interests of Military vehicle collectors. We will keep you informed.

 

Yours sincerely, Yves de Thomassson, General Secretary EH

[Jack]

Great work here Mark, thank you for your effort on this!

 

Cheers.

 

Jack.

[Degsy]

Thanks for all your work on this Mark, if we are not very careful this could happen here very soon.

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Degsy

[Mark]

This does beg the question, "Will our government of today jump on this band wagon and do the same thing to us" :idea: they are prone to spoiling peoples fun, especially where it may look good in the polls and gain a few votes to the ignorant people among us who know nothing about our hobby, and can only see green military vehicles that represent war and not the true reason for them :!:

[Spood]

Good point Mark I think this is the main worry for us over here because if Mr Bl .... sorry Bandwagon can see a chance to spoil the enjoyment of another minority he won't hesitate.

 

Don

[Richard Grosvenor]

Hello Folks,

 

Isn't there any members on here who are MV owning solicitors who could put all the legal stuff into simple speak for thickos like myself :? ?

 

 

:oops: Richard

[Mark]

Hi Richard

Try this little bit, its a brief outline

 

Nigel thanks for that, it would appear that the powers that be are insisting on having all vehicles registered. This is nothing new, in fact the materielle de guerre law has been in force since 1946 although it has been somewhat relaxed.

If we have to register evreything even down to a gask mask (which is the law at present) then we will have to do it, but the authorities will be creating a rod for their own back.

The article is by and large alarmist. What it amounts to is a tighter control of military items which include vehicles. The cannot cover vehicles that are registered in the EEC if they are registered in their own respective country and the imported into France temporarily for an event. The authorities cannot refuse entry and if the vehicle is declared with the necessary paperwork then there will be no problem. From my point of view it might be a trifle inconvenient for some, but the serious organizers will not

be unduly concerned by this advent.

[79x100]

This is something that concerns me a bit, living in Belgium, because via France is my most direct route to the UK.

 

What precisely constitutes a military vehicle and how will the French know the origins when a vehicle is registered in another country? With the exception of a very few details, my WD Norton is outwardly identical to civilian models. If I obtain a spare petrol tank and paint it silver will it no longer be military ? If I paint a pre-war bike khaki, does that make it military ?

 

Land-Rovers are another good example. Is any Bronze Green or NATO Green Land-Rover a military vehicle or only if the rear cross-member is changed ? What about an ex-MOD Station Wagon or, heaven forbid Morris Minor.

 

Common-sense tells me it is unenforceable but I don't really want to be the person to find out. Presumably the law will also apply to components, as with firearms. I'll have to watch out next time I bring a New Old Stock gearbox spring through customs.

 

Maybe we will all have to show how ridiculous it is by "Declaring" an ex-military ball bearing or something everytime we enter France for whatever reason. It doesn't have to be a ball bearing but a spherical object seems most appropriate, especially if accompanied by a whistled version of "Colonel Bogey". :lol:

[Richard Grosvenor]

Thanks Mark,

 

So it's one of those sorts of bans!

It's a bit like the horse passports that where introduced a few years ago. It's now illegal to own a horse if it hasn't got a passport, failure to do so will result in fines of up to something stupid into the £1000's! But the powers that be didn't ( and still don't) know who has or hasn't got a horse so it's up to the owner to forward the details and apply for a passport. It was a right cock up and the time limit had to be extended by nearly a year because no-one knew about the new law coming in.

I'm guessing that this ban will be the same, it is up to the owner to register the vehicle but it's not the government's job to find the vehicle's and register it.

 

Regards

Richard

[Richard Grosvenor]

I've just noticed that you can't type cock up on here. Look it just done it again, I typed cock and it put hen. "The opposite of a hen bird is a cock bird."

 

Dammit. If you don't believe me try typing the name of a male bird and see what it displays when you preview the post. Is there any other words (not swear ones) that you can't type ?

 

Regards

Richard

[Marmite!!]

"well fuck me"

 

guess what I tried to write

[Guest matt]

Hi Richard,

 

Now don't get me started on horse passports :evil: cockup isn't the word(literally!)

 

Matt.

[Guest matt]

Hang on,why did it work for me?

[Richard Grosvenor]

Hang on,why did it work for me?

 

Very strange!!

Jaaaaaack why can Matt type cock but I can't?

Dammit!! it did it again!!

 

:lol: Richard :?

[Degsy]

Richard try typing it as one word.

 

 

 

Cheers

Degsy

[Richard Grosvenor]

Oh yeah,

Thanks Degsy

 

Richard :lol: