WW1 vehicle ID's?

[Rick W]

What are they?

1

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/rik242_2006/ft17smore.jpg[/img]

2

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/rik242_2006/uk1.jpg[/img]

2

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/rik242_2006/uk2.jpg[/img]

[Rick W]

Another one..

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/rik242_2006/garfordunknown.jpg[/img]

[LeeEnfield]

The tank in pic 1 is a renault FT 17 light tank.............or possibly the russian copy, KS light tank..........or then again could be the fiat 3000 light tank...........Or maybe's the american M1918; (all based on renault FT's) :dunno:

 

As to the other's,..................... :whistle: :dunno:

 

[ashley]

Hi,

judging by the uniforms (and in the first pic the vehicles ) the first three look American the others could be anthing :dunno:

 

Ashley

[Great War truck]

The middle ones are i think Whites. The one below it is a Jeffery Quad, one of two armoured by the US Army for service on the Mexican border. They were not much use as they kept sinking in the sand. Not seen that picture before.

 

As for the one at the nbottom, goodness knows. Possibly Russian?

 

Tim (too)

[LeeEnfield]

The middle ones are i think Whites. The one below it is a Jeffery Quad, one of two armoured by the US Army for service on the Mexican border. They were not much use as they kept sinking in the sand. Not seen that picture before.

 

As for the one at the nbottom, goodness knows. Possibly Russian?

 

Tim (too)

 

 

 

I thought, at first, maybe's bottom pic of the three, was Austin based (putilov built ??), but looking into it further, they were semi tracked. :roll:

[Richard Farrant]

 

I thought, at first, maybe's bottom pic of the three, was Austin based (putilov built ??), but looking into it further, they were semi tracked. :roll:

 

 

The Austin based armoured cars in Russian service were not originally semi-tracked, definitely wheeled, because they had a rather unique transmission arrangement. There were two drive shafts from the gearbox to drive the rear wheels. I do know, if there was some kind of differential in the gearbox or aux. box, but would assume there had to be.

 

Richard

[LeeEnfield]

Cheers Richard.

 

Certainly an interesting arrangement, as you say. (dare I say, typically british, and over complicated. :whistle:)

Certainly be interested to know what the russians did to transmission for drive to the tracks

 

All the best,

 

Andy

[Richard Farrant]

Andy,

 

The thread has just aroused my interest in the Austins, and according to Wikepedia, there were three types of chassis that were ordered by the Russians, although only the first two were dispatched. The first was a car chassis and the second, a 30 cwt truck chassis. From what I was aware of before, is that the chassis that Austin sent to Russia, were 3 ton lorries, with the twin shaft drive, the diff being in the back of the gearbox (just confirmed that) and shafts running down through the chassis to bevel gears at each end of the axle tube. I am doubtful on the information in that website, because neither a car or 30wt truck chassis, would have been strong enough for the weight of the hull.

 

Now on a website, just seen, there was a preserved "Austin Putilov" at a display, with many photos of it. It has a rear axle with a diff in it and later wheels, I suspect that when axles failed, they were substituted for something else and any of these that have survived are more than likely to have been heavily modified.

 

The following link to a photo on a website shows a good side shot of one of the tracked conversions, designed by Kegresse, a Frenchman. It can be seen that the rear axle appears to be in its original position with small chain sprockets on the end, this drives a chain to the rear track sprocket.

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/pol/austin-kegresse_pol2.jpg

 

The Kegresse system has always been of interest to me, because my Grandfather drove and maintained the first Citroen Kegresse half track in England in the early 1920's for its owner near East Grinstead.

 

Richard

[Rick W]

From what I know Richard, Kegresse was in charge of the Czars workshop for these vehicles. Did he move to France or England after the revolution? Would be nice to get some close up shots of the drives.

[LeeEnfield]

Cheers for that, Richard;

 

Info I've managed to dig up as follows,.......

Austin Putilov Armoured car; 1916-1920.

Tsarist russia imported a number of commercial vehicles and fitted them with armoured bodywork at the Putilov Armament Works, St Petersburg. In 1915 the works was ordered to build A/cars using the Kegresse light track for the rear wheels, and these cars were founded on Austin chassis imported from Longbridge.

60 were built and were successful. The layout was the familiar one for the time, front engine, box body with vertical sides, and turret above the rear wheels (sic). 30 were fitted with single guns in the turret, while the other 30 were given two guns in two smaller turrets.

(as per pic, in your link)

The light rubber tracks gave these cars good mobility, and they were used well at the front line, in same manner as tanks.

most survived the war, and went on tobe used by the Bolsheviks in their internal conflict.

In winter, ski's could be fitted to the front wheels and there was also a front double roller arrangement that could be fitted as an aid to crossing wide trenches.

 

Citroen Kegresse, now there's a vehicle I'd like...................dunno how many of these have made it into preservation in this country, but I was involved in some conservation work in the piccardi region, a few years ago, and the guy who farmed an area ajoining where we were working had one,........and still used it. (sadley i did not get a chance to have a trip in it though.)

 

 

Andy

[Richard Farrant]

From what I know Richard, Kegresse was in charge of the Czars workshop for these vehicles. Did he move to France or England after the revolution? Would be nice to get some close up shots of the drives.

 

 

Rick,

 

Kegresse went back to France in 1917 and teamed up with Citroen to use his track design on their cars. The cars were launched in an expedition across the Sahara around 1921.

 

Regarding the Austin lorry drive shafts, all I can dig up is this, from a history of British Leyland,

"1913......it was reckless of Austin then still a young and not very rich concern, to produce a vehicle so unconventional as the twin-shaft two tonner. Amongst its novelties was the chassis frame: in an age when many respectable firms were still using lengths of rolled steel joist, Austin employed an elaborate pierced and pressed assembly, nicely proportioned. Drive was transmitted into each rear wheel by way of seperate prop shafts, which passed through the chassis sides. About 2,000 were made, many of which went to Russia and some to South Africa. The design petered out in 1919"

 

Hope this is of help.

 

Richard

[LeeEnfield]

I wonder WHO in the Austin camp designed such a chassis/rear drive, .........and the reasoning behind it ??

For its day, it was very advanced thinking .

 

Cheers for the extra info, Richard

 

Fasscinating topic. :-)

 

Andy

[Richard Farrant]

I wonder WHO in the Austin camp designed such a chassis/rear drive, .........and the reasoning behind it ??

For its day, it was very advanced thinking .

 

 

Andy,

 

As you say, for its day it was a radical design, but the reason could have been to eliminate the diff housing which drastically reduces ground clearance. This would have made it better for operating on badly rutted roads or off road and I suspect exports were high on the agenda. As for who designed it, at that time, Herbert Austin would have been "hands on" in that department and he had worked in Australia prior to starting his company so would know what the conditons abroad were.

 

Richard

[LeeEnfield]

Andy,

 

As you say, for its day it was a radical design, but the reason could have been to eliminate the diff housing which drastically reduces ground clearance. This would have made it better for operating on badly rutted roads or off road and I suspect exports were high on the agenda. As for who designed it, at that time, Herbert Austin would have been "hands on" in that department and he had worked in Australia prior to starting his company so would know what the conditons abroad were.

 

Richard

 

:-) Good point, Richard;

Not thought of that, re keeping drive out of the way.

Its something that always makes me smile, when figures are given for ground clearence on vehicles,..........sod the ground clearence, whats the diff clearence, more importantly, ......as thats the thing (s) that stop the vehicle dead, along with ruts that get too deep, and leave wheels dangling,...........ahem, :whistle:

 

Looking at the various ways differing manufacturers have tried, successfully and not successfully, to 'tuck' transmittion out of harms way, is interesting, in its self.

 

All the best.

 

Andy

[Enigma]

Citroen Kegresse at Beltring 2006.

[LeeEnfield]

Citroen Kegresse at Beltring 2006.

 

 

 

 

 

Brilliant.

Cheers for posting the pic. :-)

 

 

Andy

[Great War truck]

Nice to see the Citreon Kegresse. I am certain that Tony Oliver has a similar one. I will have to have a look for the photo it. Hold on. I will be back later.

 

Tim (too)

[Great War truck]

Actually this is a Crossley Kegresses, but there is a blue Citroen kegresse right behind it. Sadly i dont have a better picture.

 

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/Greatwartruck/IMG_0328.jpg[/img]

 

Tim (too)

[Rick W]

Where that photo from Tim?

[Great War truck]

Thats Tony Olivers collection at Eton Wick nr Windsor. History on Wheels museum. Its very good.

 

Tim (too)

[Rick W]

Very heavy door knocker, but what is it? Is it self propelled?

:shake: :schocked: :shake:

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/rik242_2006/031.jpg[/img]

[Great War truck]

It's Italian. Thats about all i know. I have found a picture in Barts book of a Fiat tractor towing two simultaneously. I wouldnt fancy going down a hill with two of those behind me.

 

Tim (too)

[N.O.S.]

That looks to me like a drawbar on the front end, though not a particularly strong one :whistle:

 

What a fantastic machine, wher the heck do you keep finding these pictures from?

[Rick W]

That looks to me like a drawbar on the front end, though not a particularly strong one :whistle:

 

What a fantastic machine, wher the heck do you keep finding these pictures from?

 

 

Very deep searches on the interweb thingy. Look up one thing, that leads to another and another etc, I should be working really, but my job allows the use of the www in the background for the quieter moments! :whistle: