Rlangham Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Man that looks fun, should have a charity military vehicle race meeting sometime, don't know if they'd let Scorpions etc fly around the track though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Man that looks fun, should have a charity military vehicle race meeting sometime, don't know if they'd let Scorpions etc fly around the track though! We did ask the about tracked for this year, they said Nooooooooo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I've heard that the Fox is so light and fast and at the same time top heavy that it used to tip up a lot when going round corners, has anyone ever had any bad experiences with Foxes on here? Hi Mick, Fast? When they were fairly new in service, around the mid-70's, I was in commanders position on road test after repairs and I thought she was flying, got down in the turret to see the speedo and it was 95mph !! We passed everything on the road, got to a roundabout and back up the road, meeting vehicles we had passed.....the look on their faces was a joy. I was actually involved in 3rd and 4th line repair work on them from date in to service until the time they were declared obsolete. Yes we had a few come in from accidents, most roll overs on these occured off road and more often than not, speed is a major factor. If the rear armour and silencer was removed for work, they were tested before refitting, in case of leaks or adjustments, a very small silencer was adapted to fit the pipe and the sound was something to behold, in fact even better without a silencer :lol: Set up right with power steering functioning well, ( a trouble spot with them ), they drove excellently, especially with turret removed. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted February 7, 2006 Author Share Posted February 7, 2006 Richard, I have run the Fox many times without the silencer connected. They do make a nice, LOUD noise. Not sure what the neighbours thought! I have some photos of Foxes which have tipped over, I haven't scanned them yet though. I think they're perfectly safe if you don't push them too hard and drive them properly. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Hi all, I've heard that the Fox is so light and fast and at the same time top heavy that it used to tip up a lot when going round corners, has anyone ever had any bad experiences with Foxes on here? cheers, mick. Our "A" Squadron had Fox in Tidworth in 1976 - 77. We had returned from Northern Ireland after years in the Armour role and were in the throes of converting to Recce. "B" Sqn had Scorpion; "C" Sqn, in Cyprus, had Ferrets. There was driver training and gunnery training going on apace. A friend and another young lad were out on the Driver Training Area outside the back of our barracks, learning how to handle obstacles (knife edges, steep inclines, ditches, water, etc) under instruction. My friend floored it and raced at an incline (maybe 50%?). Halfway up he had to change down. He'd correctly preselected the lower gear and pressed the Gear Change Pedal, but not confidently enough and the gearbox found a false neutral. Fox started racing backwards down the incline very quickly. The commander saw what was coming and knew that if the Fox was left to roll, it would come to a safe halt by itself. He grabbed the mike and told the driver, "DON'T HIT THE BRAKE!" but the ancient Larkspur radio didn't react quickly enough (or his mouth was in gear before the prestel finger) and the driver missed the first word. He slammed the brake on. The Fox is still going backwards downhill at a frightening rate, the back wheels bite (in the opposite way to the front wheels when you lock your car up) and Fox rolls ... END OVER END. The commander is a professional and simply ducks inside. The driver is fairly well protected by the Rarden cannon, though he ended up one of the last inmates of Tidworth Military Hospital before it closed with some nasty-looking superficial injuries. The sprog second trainee tries to climb out and jump for it ... He only got halfway. Not a pretty site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrad Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Fox's arn't half as dangerous as they say, Yes they can do crazy speeds on the motorway & past 70mph the steering does start to feel light, anyone who tries to give you an accurate speed is guessing as the speedo doesn't go up that high. In my 8 years of service experience with fox, I have never seen one roll over as long as you respect them they are safe. We had one slip off the edge of a track in germany, it slipped sideways for more than 30 yards down and embankment of over 50 Degrees without rolling & could still be driven down into the valley. Safe yes, reliable well thats a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 anyone who tries to give you an accurate speed is guessing as the speedo doesn't go up that high. My speedo in the Fox is marked up to 70, I was clocked by my mate following at 75mph & the speedo was just over the 70mph mark so can't be that far off, at lower speeds it's almost spot on. Some speedo's are only marked up to 50mph with two dots for 60 & 70, I think Chris M. has one of these.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 Our Fox has the same speedo fitted at the Spartan. Not had the Fox on the road yet, but the Spartan will easily do 45. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 anyone who tries to give you an accurate speed is guessing as the speedo doesn't go up that high. Hi Comrad, It was on the P of MPH, 6 o'clock position on the speedo, which was marked up to 70. A check on the dial it is easy to see that it could be 95 thereabouts. I can tell you it was bloody fast, because I was head out of the turret. At a later date, a unit was delivering some to us for repairs and hearing them talking to each other and one was clocked at the Ton on M20, by an accompanying staff car. Kewelde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I did the 75mph on the M25 & it still had a load more pull but I started getting in to traffic.. M25 from Fox Turret :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlangham Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Boy I bet you got some looks then :shock: Not that i'm jealous or anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Boy I bet you got some looks then :shock: Not that i'm jealous or anything... Especially when you overtake the Police doing 70 :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrad Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Max speed was always a hot issue with fox crew's, on road runs it was the gunners job to take a photo of the speedo if the driver thought he was doing particularly good. I have seen photos of a very wobbly needle at 10 MPH the driver claimed it was his second time around ??? ( it was down hill though). 75 Yes, 95 at the bottom maybe ?, but this would be 110 MPH !!!!. I think once your past the end of the speedo its accuracy starts to drop off. There is no doubt though that they are S**t of a shovel What we need is a long straight road, anyone know any abandoned runways Chris ??. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 There is no doubt though that they are S**t of a shovel What we need is a long straight road, anyone know any abandoned runways Chris ??. Comrad, My tale was from the days when they were in service, as with you. But having to deal with inumerable catastophic engine blow ups, I would be loath to chase one hard if it belonged to me. I did have the bottom end of a conrod once, which looked as though it had been in a forge and got twisted in a knot, that was from a J60. Wish I had kept it, could have made an annual trophy for the person suffering the biggest disaster with their MV. If any of you private owners had ever seen these, you would not go over 45 mph ! Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Richard, I've seen one recently where the fluid flywheel exploded, smashed the bell housing to bits, broke the nearside rear deive shaft somehow which smashed the crap out of the turret basket, looks like a bomb went off in there, must of scared the crap out of the crew, the commanders seat was also damaged, luck would have it I had a spare pair of Fox rear drive shafts for the guy, still got a front pair if anyone needs some.. Still looking for a Tacho for my Fox if anyone has one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I have been thinking again about the question of Fox stability. Two more penn'orth. My own nearest experience of a comparable vehicle is a Mark 5 (Swingfire turret) Ferret. Seeing those pics of Fox without the Rarden, it would be very easy to confuse them. Only one turret hatch on the Ferret 5 though (two man crew). The Ferret 5 carried a heavy steel turret and two Swingfire ATGMs, each weighing about 1cwt. I'll never forget watching the squadron medic hump one onto his shoulder during loading, forgetting that he wasn't really dressed for the part and the AGTM pushed the pins of his 15/19H shoulder title into his shoulder. Oh how he squealed! I never drove one bombed up (I was fetch and carry with the Squadron Leader's Landrover), but even so, the Ferret 5 never felt at all top heavy, even throwing it around the country roads of Northumberland to get them to the sidings at er Morpeth? to entrain them for the journey back to Tidworth. I presume the Fox turret is aluminum (alloy?) like the rest of the body. I assume all the major assemblies are steel. Fuel tank, ammunition etc are in the hull, not the very small turret, so the addition of the small aluminium turret will not raise the centre of mass as far as the heavy steel turret on the Ferret. I'd therefore posit that the Fox IS inherently stable and that by and large, roll-overs would be down to driver error. As an aside, armed with a cannon as opposed to a gun, there would also be no recoil effect on the vehicle during firing, compared with a Scorpion which leapt about when the 76mm gun was fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 The hull and turret of the Fox are very different to a Ferret Mk5. The vehicle weighs significantly more, and the turret is huge in comparison. The gun weighs something like 1/2 a ton (can't remember the exact figure) and is sat quite high in the vehicle. Most of the incidents were probably due to driver error, but there were also a lot of modifications throughout the service life of the Fox to try and improve stability. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 The gun weighs something like 1/2 a ton Most of the incidents were probably due to driver error, but there were also a lot of modifications throughout the service life of the Fox to try and improve stability. I seem to think we weighed a turret once and it was around 1 ton with Rarden fitted. It was a common job to lift turrets out for gearbox work, etc. and one of the smaller gantry cranes used to grunt a bit. Any vehicle with a high C of G has to be handle carefully, like crossing gradients off road, cornering too fast or turning the steering too tight. Having carried out practically all the Mods. ever issued on them, I cannot remember any that were aimed at improving stability, though. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrad Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 If their is one thing I can promise you is that no one ever fired the rarden cannon other than over the front arc of the vehicle, actually some one probably did it once & I would not have wanted to be them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick garner Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Hi all, I knew that the fox was fast but 70 was about flat out according to my knowledge. 95 mph! I thought 60 in a Ferret was fast! I've overtaken steam engines, tractors,(the usual) even a Renault Laguna whilst driving to Duxford MV show. He was going 45 and I just thought "I can go faster than this!" so I floored it, asked the son if I could pull out into the "fast" lane and with a quick flick of the steering wheel I was past him. I could vaguely see the son laughing at him as we drove past and according to the son he looked mighty pi**ed off. I've always loved the Fox for it's looks and power but I just think that if I was offered another vehicle like a 432 or even a rough Abbot I would just have to take the tracked option. I have just always wanted to own something tracked. So you can really say " I have a tank." Instead of saying "I own an armoured car." But I just cannot beleive that insane speed you can drive a 6 ton armoured vehicle and yet still have more yet to come. Cheers, Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 The complete turret weighs 2900lb which is 1.315 Tonnes. I was a bit out on the gun, it's only 110Kg. When we first got the Fox someone told me that the suspension was updated, and if this mod was carried out the code was changed from 7000 to 8000. Our vehicle shows this happening on 8/5/84. Not sure how true any of that is, and I haven't seen any documentation to support it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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