Op Mudlark - FV437 Pathfinder, FV432, FMC M113-1/2 (Lynx) , M551 Sheridan

[Mark Ellis]

2 hours ago, andym said:

Are we absolutely sure that was the case, Mark?  Some drawings or interior photos would be really helpful.

Andy

As well as what David said, I shared a screenshot on Page 1 of the area next to the driver being flat plate 

 

[wally dugan]

The fate  of the FV402 and FV421 is well documented all but 00 CA 25 whose fate is not documented after 1/4/64 when it was sent to RARDE LANGHURST  and 00 CA 31  which went to VICKERS NEWCASTLE AS to the M113 it was given the ERM            00 DC 51 the 432 story is in the files along with the drawings in storage thou some information is still here with me

Edited January 1 by wally dugan
numbers wrong way round

[10FM68]

Here's the M113 with a Scorpion turret.  If I remember rightly, this subject cropped up on here a few months back.  Soth is photo may well have been provided by another member.  

[wally dugan]

First  the M113 FVRDE had two one 00 DC 51 and a  second one wing number 8237 this fitted with GREEN ARCHER ERM 00 FE 01 the FV 432 wing number 6453 ERM 03 DA 04 was also fitted with it. Water obstacle the land rover APGP  grounded on the entry slope was one of two a FVRDE ERM 637 ELM and 638 ELM 638 ELM was in Canada at the time of the trial so that leaves 637 ELM wing number6566

Edited January 2 by wally dugan

[Tarland]

@wally dugan when were the M113's at the FVDRE??

The Australians put Saladin turrets on M113's in Vietnam in 1971 - see Paul Handels website http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured Vehicles/m113a1fsvph_1.htm

The saladin turret was later replaced by the scorpion equivalent - I wonder if this was before the FVDRE work with the vehicle shown.....

 

[wally dugan]

Two M113s 00FE01  left 1972   00DC51 was transferred 1969 to SHRIVENAM in what guise it does not indicate there are no more details but it left FVRDE there may be more but if it is it's with the others in storage

[10FM68]

--DC-- is the ERM for 60/61.  As discussed on another thread, there were also the fourteen M113s from Israel used in Afghanistan with the Exactor missile system  but that was very much later - their ERMs were KM which were miscellaneous vehicles so difficult to age. --FE-- would be 1971/72.  T

he attached photo of 00DC51 - also from a previous thread, suggests that it was taken in a 'museum environment' of some sort, so probably at RMCS after its time with FVRDE and the turret is no longer there.

Edited January 2 by 10FM68

[sirhc]

[Mark Ellis]

Woolwich

Woolich

[wally dugan]

there were 16 FV 432  numbered with  the W From one to sixteen number  W one was    03 DA 17 establishment number6457 after trials at FVRDE it was sent to PEE SHOEBURYNESS on the 23/2/66 THE early ones with P prefix had civil numbers 429 ALR/157 BXR/216 BXR P3 did not have a civilian number

[Tarland]

On 12/30/2023 at 7:20 PM, 10FM68 said:

And the M113 1/2 is registered 50BT05 in Aug - Oct 1966 so, presumably, was with FVRDE long enough to be registered and under trials 2 years later than the Horsea Island tests of June 64.

Same vehicle in the Littlefield collection?? - results of the 2014 Auction

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/lc14/the-littlefield-collection/lots/r0005-fmc-armored-command-recon-vehicle-lynx/574232

You can just make out the reg number and it does look like it ends 05...... (it also doesnt have the commanders cupola so would match up with the FVDRE photos)

Also a prototype M113-1/2?

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/lc14/the-littlefield-collection/lots/r0073-fmc-armored-command-recon-vehicle-lynx/574516

Prototype M113 IFV's

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/lc14/the-littlefield-collection/lots/r0045-aifv-dsid-0001-prototype/574184

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/lc14/the-littlefield-collection/lots/r0047-aifv-demo-1-prototype/574490

 

Edited January 7 by Tarland

[Tarland]

On 12/30/2023 at 10:54 AM, wally dugan said:

After a bit more digging l would like to add the following P1 was number W4 and numbered 06 EB 04 and was transferred to SEME  on the 27/7/68 P2 was number W3 and  renumbered  06 EB 03 and transferred to RMSC  SHRIVENAM on the 8/9/69  W2 06 EB 02 was first sent to the RAC CENTRE BOVINGTON on the 6/4/67 and transferred to REME APPRENTICE SCHOOL ARBORFIELD on the 3/12 71 last         06 EB 01 was sent to 10  AVD date not published  It would appear that more FV 421 were built  than FV 437 There is a lot more to the story of the FV 400 series than you may first think and it began as early as 1950

Wally, do we know how many of the 431 load carriers were built?

We know that FV437 06 EB 01 is converted from one of these vehicles. There is a load carrier photographed as a range target in Rob Griffins Pen and Sword book on the FV430 series (not a great publication - has the feel of being thrown together on a Friday afternoon). Theres no visible/legible markings on the photos.

From the Chatham photos the FV437 at the RE museum is definitely built from a load carrier given the spacing of the wheel stations. So is this 06 EB 01 heavily modified/stripped of its original fittings....?

[wally dugan]

I am on my way out so will look when l get back tomorrow is fifty nine years when l started working for a living  so l am going to take the family out

[wally dugan]

to answer the question on FV 437 the records only show clearly two 06 EB 03 P2/W3 and       02 EB 04 P2/ W4 As to FV 431 six are listed 06 EB 01 WAS TRANSFERED to a CENTRAL VEHICLE DEPOT on 27/7/65 I need to find it's location as it is a new one to me and may give a bit more history

[wally dugan]

To day has been  a day of waiting for deliveries so a chance to look for more on the FV400 series  it's strange that you read some thing in a book written by a  [expert] that you know to be wrong or read something else were l gave up years ago at trying to point out the mistakes because all you get is grief . The story of the FV400 is a case in question  the more l dig the more l am puzzled any way here is a bit of the story the trials  for suitable recovery trailer

[wally dugan]

I wanted to know more on the history of the FV400 series so l asked a friend if he had any information and received  some more to add to what l already had he too had spent time there at FVRDE in past

[Tarland]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:40 PM, Mark Ellis said:

There's a number of Prototype vehicles that have been given to these "Civilian" military museums, and volunteers have caused more harm than good. 

The Stalwart went through 3 changes before they settled on the production marine propulsion design. I'd wondered if the round bits were inside the rectangular outlets. 
I'll see if someone can pop over and get some close up photos of the vehicle.

Perhaps @wally dugan has something on the development of the FV437.

I'd presumed that the rectangular box around the top was part of a shallow crew area. The winch comes out the front right at the bottom, so not sure where the winch is housed, but the REME 432 had a winch in the middle of the personnel area

 

Stalwart PV2, with the outlet on the side of the hull

 

Prototype Revised Water deflector board trial vehicle - 02SP43 at Beverly

 

02SP43 at Aldershot museum, after a volunteer apparently removed "the wrong" splashboard

Stolly footage courtesy of Mr Hewes on Youtube - apparently these are away to be restored

[Mark Ellis]

I've received the following from the RE museum today

 

Good afternoon Mark,

I have checked our records and can confirm that we no longer have the FV437. Unfortunately, there is no paperwork associated with it, though I did speak to several colleagues who have worked here for considerable time and they do not have memory of the vehicle being in the collection, so it would have been many years ago.

You also requested any information on the FV432. This is the information from the catalogue and display that we have; unfortunately there is no paperwork associated with this vehicle:

 

200708.2: An FV432 Armoured Personnel Carrier (APC) and Bar Mine Layer; fitted with bar mine layer (trailer) and ranger (roof) mine laying systems. On the roof is a Ranger anti-personnel mine-laying system. This rapidly throws down mines to prevent the passage of enemy troops. It could scatter 1296 mines in under six minutes. The APC tows a Barmine layer; these are mines designed to disable enemy tanks. It could lay around 700 per hour.

Engine: Rolls-Royce K60 multi-fuel

It would have been used in Germany (BAOR) but also in the Gulf War.

Mines: L9 Anti-Tank Barmine, L10 Anti-Personnel Mine

Weight: 15 tons

Crew: 2 plus passengers

Speed: 32 mph (unladen)