AEC armoured cars

[10FM68]

Can anyone tell me how long after the war AEC armoured cars remained in British service?  I had assumed they remained until Saladins came in, but that would have meant, effectively, until the 60s which seems rather late.  I presume spares were easy enough given that they were based on the Matador, but I'd like to know.  Also, if they were in service, how were they distributed?  Again, I can only presume, but the Corps armoured car regiment seems likely in mixed troops with DACs and Dingoes.  If anyone can shed any light, I'd be grateful.

Second question - can anyone tell me how long the 6x6 AEC armoured command vehicles stayed in service and, again, how were they distributed?  Did they remain in 1(BR) Corps HQ, or at divisional level?  There was a prototype LHD model based on the Militant Mk1, I think, but it came to nought - was that intended as a replacement?

 

Many thanks

[john1950]

One I have seen a photo of was an AEC Militant Mk3 6x6 LHD Command vehicle. FV11061. 1966. 

[REME 245]

I would find it hard to believe that AEC Armoured Cars stayed in service past the mid 1950's but they may have still been in storage.   Post war Armoured Car Regiments had a support Troop  so a small number would have been allocated there.  Recce Troops by then would have been Daimler Dingo's and Armoured Cars prior to the arrival of Ferrets.

Edited January 11, 2023 by REME 245

[radiomike7]

17 hours ago, john1950 said:

One I have seen a photo of was an AEC Militant Mk3 6x6 LHD Command vehicle. FV11061. 1966. 

This one perhaps, the original caption claims a mk3 but 1966 and lhd suggests it might be a Mk2?

Also a photo of the original wartime version which looks like it was based on the AEC 6x6 tanker chassis.

[10FM68]

19 hours ago, john1950 said:

One I have seen a photo of was an AEC Militant Mk3 6x6 LHD Command vehicle. FV11061. 1966. 

Thanks for that, yes that's the one I was thinking of - from Bart Vanderveen's book, if I remember correctly.

1 hour ago, radiomike7 said:

This one perhaps, the original caption claims a mk3 but 1966 and lhd suggests it might be a Mk2?

Also a photo of the original wartime version which looks like it was based on the AEC 6x6 tanker chassis.

Yes, either Mk2 or 3, not 1 as I suggested - I couldn't remember.  The 1945 6x6s must have remained in service until the mid 50s at least as, by then, they would only have been 10 years old and would not have done  huge mileages.  I agree, ref the AEC armoured cars.  I was thinking mid-50s, so there would have been a gap before the arrival of Saladins.  And, yes, I suspect you're also right ref storage - I bet Ludgershall was full of them.  I remember travelling past Ludgershall quite often when I was a child.  I used to press my nose to the car window and beg Dad to drive slowly.  It was always a red letter day if one of the sheds was open!  Trouble is, I can't remember what it was I used to be able to see inside!  Certainly lots of Ferrets, but there must have been a lot else besides.  And, of course, there was often a lot stored outside.  But, Salisbury Plain was much more accessible in those days - now it is ruined - access restricted, huge great 'motorways' built across everywhere, it's lost it wild charm (and with no accessible vehicle wrecks it's a bit dull too!)

[john1950]

There is at least one wartime one under restoration by a forum member.

[attleej]

The caption describes a Mk III militant because of the 226 BHP engine, ie a AEC 760 and 6 speed gear box.  The silencer is not like a Mk I or II., more like a Mk III.  But the tyres look like 1400 X 20. rather than 1500 X 20.   I thought my AEC 10 tonner 37EP87 at 240 Sqn was built in 1966.  Either the description above is inaccurate or it was a late militant made from available commercial components to give better performance.  Interesting.

 

John  

[john1950]

There cannot have been many LHD models made.

[radiomike7]

1 hour ago, attleej said:

The caption describes a Mk III militant because of the 226 BHP engine, ie a AEC 760 and 6 speed gear box.  The silencer is not like a Mk I or II., more like a Mk III.  But the tyres look like 1400 X 20. rather than 1500 X 20.   I thought my AEC 10 tonner 37EP87 at 240 Sqn was built in 1966.  Either the description above is inaccurate or it was a late militant made from available commercial components to give better performance.  Interesting.

 

John  

Looking at the rear hubs it is indeed a Mk3 John although the few Mk2s made were tested with 2 versions of multifuel engines, most likely 690 and 760. Both were disasters and the Mk3 ended up with an AV760 diesel.

[attleej]

I am afraid that I am not that good at counting rivets!!!!

I expect that it has got a Mk II bumper because that was what they had available.

If they were making even a few LHD commercials of a similar type, it might not have been too difficult to make this armoured one as there would be no cab to worry about.

 

John

[john1950]

AEC 0853 Dorsetshire also 0854 variant of which 151 were made according to one source, production 1944/45. I also have seen a photo of LHD Matadors outside of the AEC factory, for delivery to South Africa.  

[10FM68]

1 hour ago, john1950 said:

AEC 0853 Dorsetshire also 0854 variant of which 151 were made according to one source, production 1944/45. I also have seen a photo of LHD Matadors outside of the AEC factory, for delivery to South Africa.  

AEC Dorchester (named after the hotel as it was so spacious and luxurious - everything's relative) was the wartime 4x4.  The 6x6 came right at the end and, yes, there were 151 of them.  But I don't understand why there would be LHD Matadors for South Africa as they drive on the proper side of the road!  The LHD SWB AEC Milli Mk3 ACV was, I understand, only a single prototype.

[john1950]

I can remember thinking the same about the Mat's at the time.

[David Herbert]

Was the photo reversed possibly? It was not uncommon for photos to be printed back to front then.

David

[john1950]

It's a few years ago but the article with it said they were LHD. If I remember rightly they were towing flat trailers

[07BE16]

With reference to the first question there is a picture of a Mark III AEC Armoured Car serving with C Squadron 13/18th Hussars heavy troop (with  1st British Corps badge on mud guard) in 1956 /57 include  in 'The Royal Armoured Corps in the Cold War 1946 - 1990' Pen and Sword 2016.

[10FM68]

2 hours ago, 07BE16 said:

With reference to the first question there is a picture of a Mark III AEC Armoured Car serving with C Squadron 13/18th Hussars heavy troop (with  1st British Corps badge on mud guard) in 1956 /57 include  in 'The Royal Armoured Corps in the Cold War 1946 - 1990' Pen and Sword 2016.

Ah!  Thank you for that.  That's exactly the sort of information I was after.  So, still serving with the regulars in the middle 50s!  Good that suits my ideas.  Sounds as though they were the 1(BR)Corps armoured car regiment - should have been a '2' on red/yellow on other mudguard then.

[07BE16]

Yes according to my reference 13/18th Hussars are shown as the Armoured Car Regiment at Corps level in 1957. Unfortunately somebody is standing in front of the other mudguard! 

[10FM68]

Typical, no consideration at all!

[07BE16]

I have just sent some scans of the book via PM

[10FM68]

5 hours ago, 07BE16 said:

I have just sent some scans of the book via PM

Seen - many thanks indeed, most kind.

[BlueBelle]

On 1/12/2023 at 4:05 PM, 10FM68 said:

Ah!  Thank you for that.  That's exactly the sort of information I was after.  So, still serving with the regulars in the middle 50s!  Good that suits my ideas.  Sounds as though they were the 1(BR)Corps armoured car regiment - should have been a '2' on red/yellow on other mudguard then.

No, seems it's not a '2'' but what looks like a unique '131' on the RAC flash. Images of vehicles of 13/18H in 1957 taken from lousy pdf reproductions of the 1956 and 57 regimental journals sent to me when researching AEC ACs in Libya in the late 1940s and 1950s. D. Taylor's Warpaint is lacking the AoS information, not for the first time either. Each sabre squadron of the regiment had a Heavy Troop consisting of two AEC ACs and one Dingo. So six AECs in all in the regiment and they spent most of their service in the care of the REME LAD.

[REME 245]

Sounds like they were considered more of a liability than useful by this date.  Not sure if they had different ratio's in the transmission to the Trucks to get more speed.  

I am looking for pictures of Daimler Armoured Car Mk11 91ZR36 in the unlikely event it is pictured in this book.

[10FM68]

20 hours ago, BlueBelle said:

No, seems it's not a '2'' but what looks like a unique '131' on the RAC flash. Images of vehicles of 13/18H in 1957 taken from lousy pdf reproductions of the 1956 and 57 regimental journals sent to me when researching AEC ACs in Libya in the late 1940s and 1950s. D. Taylor's Warpaint is lacking the AoS information, not for the first time either. Each sabre squadron of the regiment had a Heavy Troop consisting of two AEC ACs and one Dingo. So six AECs in all in the regiment and they spent most of their service in the care of the REME LAD.

Thank you for this very interesting contribution.  I am not surprised about the AOS number being from an unallocated batch - it seems to me almost to be the rule rather than the exception.  I spend a lot of time looking at photos and trying to work out who the vehicles belonged to and when and am often frustrated to find that the AOS number isn't shown in my comprehensive list.  I was wrong, incidentally, about it being a 2 - I was thinking of the Corps RAC regiment - the armoured car regiment, according to Staff Duties in the Field for all editions in the 50s, should have been 44.

 

But, thank you very much for the photos - it's all grist to the mill.

[10FM68]

Well, I went and bought the book.  After I had pressed 'buy' from Amazon, I looked again and thought it looked familiar - it should do, I had a pristine copy already on my bookshelf!  Ho hum!  Anyway, I looked at the various photos of armoured cars of 13/18H taken at around the same time.  The AECs had '131' on their AOS sign as did some DACs.  But... other DACs in the same series of photos had '44'!  Any ideas anyone?