Help wanted

[ferret]

Hi,

 

The seals are leaking on both front outer tracta joints of my Ferret.

 

Who is the best source for the seals?

 

Is anybody in the South Yorkshire area willing to give me a hand fitting the seals?

 

I am more than happy to pay for your time etc.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Regards Chris

[Tony B]

Can you use swivel grease in those? Peculiar stuff to thick to drink to thin to plough. works in Land Rovers.

[Marmite!!]

Hi,

 

The seals are leaking on both front outer tracta joints of my Ferret.

 

Who is the best source for the seals?

 

Is anybody in the South Yorkshire area willing to give me a hand fitting the seals?

 

I am more than happy to pay for your time etc.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Regards Chris

 

 

No problems there it's British Armour & they all leak a bit somewhere, start worrying when they don't leak, then you know you have no oil in something :whistle:

 

& as sirhc said in a previous post...

 

All Ferrets leak, the more oil you put in the more leaks out. Even if you were to replace every single seal on the vehicle you'd still get puddles underneath it. Just keep it all topped up.

 

Chris

 

[Degsy]

Before the days of swivel grease we used to use 140 grade oil in LR swivels,had to warm it up in hot water to thin it enough to pour it in but it used to reduce the leaking to a minimum and we never had any problems with lack of lubrication.

[ferret]

Hi,

 

I topped up the oil yesterday, this is what I found this morning.

 

One side just weeps a bit so will probably leave that.

 

But as you can see the other side is is pi@@ing out.

 

As anybody done these seals before?

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

I don't mind 8mpg (petrol) but oil as well

[john fox]

Chris

where is the oil actually leaking from - follow the trail back up the tyre and see if it ends at one or both of the 2 holes on the back plate which the brakes are attached to , if so the hub oil seal has gone and to replace that you have to strip the hub from the front.

 

If the leak is not from those holes but the source is somewhere on teh back side of the tyre the seal behind the gaitor boot may have gone - thats much easier to replace as you don't have to dismantle the hub to do it.

 

Those are the only 2 seals on the outer tracta. If the leak is on the front of the tyre then its the instant gasket thats gone on the hub joints

 

John

[ferret]

Hi John

 

It is definitely the seal behind the gaiter boot that as gone.

 

Where can I get the seals from? What is involved to do the job?

 

Regards Chris

[john fox]

As ever with Ferret there are only really 2 sources of parts Marcus Glen or Banisters. However for mechanical stuff like that you're certain to get it from Banisters

 

Do bear in mind however that there is no clear consensus on the value of using NOS seals from the dealers. They may have been made a long time ago and have hardened up by now - then again check with Banister as I vaguely remember he once said he buys brand new ones nowadays having sold off his NOS stock years ago.

 

Thats the other annoying part of oil seals on Ferret - they are almost certainly standard items available on the civi market but no one has ever posted up a definitive part number conversion list to enable us to order them direct from the places the dealers buy them from - you could always try yourself of course :whistle:. if you have a seal stockist near you

 

Re the job - this list is probably not complete and don't blame me if I miss a bit or the order is a bit out (over 6 years since I did mine)

 

- jack up the vehicle and secure on stands - I removed the road wheel to improve access to the hub and reduce the overall weight of components to be moved around

- remove boot/gaiter ring of bolts (& lock wire) and jubilee clip and separate the now exposed half shaft/prop shaft

- undo the upper suspension wish bone allen key bolts (do NOT remove lower one)

- the entire wheel hub can then be pivoted downwards, may need to be prised apart to start. Warning this is a heavy item so watch your fingers and toes, have a cushion under it (eg block of wood) to protect it from damage

- remove gaiter/boot to expose oil seal

- replace seal and reverse above procedure

 

Can i strongly suggest you get yourself a copy of the EMER as a free download from http://www.Ferret-afv.org if you don't already have it

 

[ferret]

Thanks for that john, sounds faily straight forward.

 

Chris

[N.O.S.]

 

Thats the other annoying part of oil seals on Ferret - they are almost certainly standard items available on the civi market but no one has ever posted up a definitive part number conversion list to enable us to order them direct from the places the dealers buy them from - you could always try yourself of course :whistle:. if you have a seal stockist near you

 

 

For what it's worth, I've never ordered a shaft seal by part number from a seal specialist.

 

All they need is O.D., I.D. and thickness, also helps to give them application (Thickness is not critical, sometimes you have to use a thinner one if original size is not available - older ones tended to be extra thick!). Quite often you have the option of rubber-coated O.D. face. Also very, very thin shaft wear sleeves are available for where shaft surface is too badly scored.

 

With regard to application, e.g. hub seals, leather ones are not always available nowadays, you have a choice of standard neoprene shaft seal or nothing. Most larger hubs (older lorry and bigger plant) use these, we've never had any trouble. Can't comment on modern truck hubs, no experience.

 

I've no idea what genuine Ferret seals are like - some OEM seals I've used recently have been very hard thin almost metallic material, but again we've also used standard neoprene in the same application in the past (wheel loader reduction hubs) with no probs.

 

Seals seem to priced such that if you buy 10 or 20 plus, the cost per seal is a fraction of buying one or two, so buying a couple from a seal supplier would not necessarily be any cheaper than sourcing from one of the specialsist MV parts people you mention.

 

Hope this is of help.

 

[Richard Farrant]

For what it's worth, I've never ordered a shaft seal by part number from a seal specialist.

 

All they need is O.D., I.D. and thickness, also helps to give them application

 

I've no idea what genuine Ferret seals are like - some OEM seals I've used recently have been very hard thin almost metallic material, but again we've also used standard neoprene in the same application in the past (wheel loader reduction hubs) with no probs.

 

 

 

In respect of Tracta seals for the Ferret, these are not a common standard seal as the lip bears on a spherical surface. They were a specific design for that application. But when it comes to other seals on the Ferret, like, hub seal, challis internal seal, bevel box input, etc., these are to common Imperial sizes. So you really have to go to someone like Banisters, who maintain good stocks.

 

I use a good number of seals over a year and mostly for military vehicles and equipment over 60 years old, my local bearing supplier has a very good knowledge and just by quoting any visible number on the seal over the phone, failing that, measurements of shaft size, OD and width, can come up with a suitable item. On some sizes you have options of steel casing leather lip, or rubber coated casing and single lip, double lip with dirt seal, etc.

 

Hope this helps, Chris.

 

Richard

[Tony B]

have you got a branch of Arco near you? They do dozens of diffrent gaskets and seals plus all sorts of other useful pills and potions. Taks a sample in and see what they have. they also do a range of materials to allow you to make up seals.

[N.O.S.]

In respect of Tracta seals for the Ferret, these are not a common standard seal as the lip bears on a spherical surface. They were a specific design for that application.

 

Yep, never been able to get these from anyone other than axle manufacturer / vehicle parts agent. But they must be made by someone - who I wonder? :dunno:

[Tony B]

Try 'em http://www.arco.co.uk/

[ferret]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for the advice and info!

 

Once removed I will take the old seal to my local seals and bearings supplier, and see if they can match it up. If not I will try Bannister's, when I rang Bannister's yesterday they wanted the part number, will this be on the seal? I have a scanned parts list on PDF, but it is very difficult to read.

 

Does anybody have the part number?

 

Regards Chris

[Richard Farrant]

Yep, never been able to get these from anyone other than axle manufacturer / vehicle parts agent. But they must be made by someone - who I wonder? :dunno:

 

 

Tony,

 

For Ferret, Saracen, etc. the tracta seals were specifically designed and made for this vehicle, no equivalants would be available. Subsequent orders from the manufacturer would be via Daimler, Alvis or direct from MoD themselves. Even if you did find the manufacturer, I doubt they could or would help, because it was a item supplied to a customers spec. and not a common item. I have come across this regarding seals on CVR(T) gearboxes, when contacting the seal maker.

 

I know you run a Bedford M series, did you know that the tracta seal on those, is the same as the QL and RL? How is that for standard parts! I think they were available from Payen the gasket and seal makers at one time.

 

Richard

[Richard Farrant]

when I rang Bannister's yesterday they wanted the part number, will this be on the seal? I have a scanned parts list on PDF, but it is very difficult to read.

 

Does anybody have the part number?

 

 

Chris,

 

Outer tracta seal for Ferret is;

9ASC/2520-99-815-6505

 

Richard

[N.O.S.]

Bedford M series, did you know that the tracta seal on those, is the same as the QL and RL?

 

I'd have guessed RL, but certainly not QL! In that case it would not surprise me if GMC was same size - will check as I think I have a set of each.

 

Bedford tracta seals have been readily available and very cheap, so no incentive to look elsewhere, but they do not give much trouble.

 

In extreme cases of non-availability, there's a very good rubber company at Norwich who will produce tooling reasonably cheaply for small runs of obselete rubber or bonded metal/rubber seal components, just a case of enough desperate people pooling together :-D Been thinking about the engine - gearbox coupling spiders for Scammells, getting rare now.

[sirhc]

Chris,

If you can't read the part numbers in your parts list it doesn't sound like there's much point in having it! Why not invest in a proper readable copy, it will make ordering spares much easier.

Chris

[Dakman]

 

Regarding the gearbox coupling spiders for Scammells, I was a member of both the Scammell Register and Scammell Owners and Enthusiasts Club several years ago, (I owned an ex-Sunters Super Constructor in passing), and the subject of these couplings was a hot potato then, to the extent that they may well have got to the tooling and production stage. If needs be, well worth Googling and contacting before launching out on one's own.

No need to "re- invent the wheel" twice!

[SPTA team]

Ferrets don't leak, they are just marking there territory :tup: