Truck257 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Hello and thank you to all that will take the time to read this my name is Andrew I am 24 I run a small classic vintage and veteran vehicle workshop in Birmingham and currently have in for recommissioning a 1915 Leyland Truck. I love History and the wars so when I got the chance to work on this Leyland I gladly accepted the offer. I am here seeking your guidance and knowledge. The furthest I’ve got with research is just google. And apparently this vehicle was in the Egyptian desert during WW1. Firstly is there any way anybody could confirm this ? I know they used FWD lorry’s, Thornycrofts and AEC’s but never found much about Leylands ? I have many many more questions and am very happy to chat if anybody has any advice or help Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Hi Andrew, looks like an R.A.F. type Leyland which has been modified for civilian use after the War. The brush bar and recovery hooks are signs of previous military service. However the cab has been replaced and pneumatic tyres fitted in place of the original solids. There should be a number in the centre of the drilled front chassis plate which would confirm it's age. It is more or less impossible to find out where these vehicles served, but many were refurbished by Leyland after the War, the vast majority of which returned from France. Good luck with your project. Tomo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rootes75 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Sounds like you have a very interesting and rewarding job Andrew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck257 Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Tomo.T said: Hi Andrew, looks like an R.A.F. type Leyland which has been modified for civilian use after the War. The brush bar and recovery hooks are signs of previous military service. However the cab has been replaced and pneumatic tyres fitted in place of the original solids. There should be a number in the centre of the drilled front chassis plate which would confirm it's age. It is more or less impossible to find out where these vehicles served, but many were refurbished by Leyland after the War, the vast majority of which returned from France. Good luck with your project. Tomo Brilliant thank you for your reply I really appreciate it when you say RAF is that a type of truck or is that Royal Air Force ? also where abouts on the member will those numbers be on the outside of it or the inside ? might be buried under the paint. so would the likely hood of her going to Egypt be true or would it have most likely been France ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck257 Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Rootes75 said: Sounds like you have a very interesting and rewarding job Andrew! Thank you and it is. I do enjoy learning and gaining the skills and knowledge about working on theses old beasts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 R.A.F. type refers to their use by the RFC / RAF during WW1. This wasn't exclusive, the army had them too, but the name stuck. The numbers should be stamped on the outside in the centre. I would be wary of stories about the wartime history. Leyland famously bought up large quantities of these lorries from the War Dept. post war and refurbished them. They nearly went broke over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck257 Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 Ah I understand now so this is a picture of the area. There’s a hole in the centre so would it be to the left, right or above ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) it would look a lot better on solid tyres, in my opinion. But would also be less practical. Edited September 9, 2020 by andypugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Truck257 said: Ah I understand now so this is a picture of the area. There’s a hole in the centre so would it be to the left, right or above ? I think the no. is on the top surface of that plate, in the centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 There will be a series of numbers about 10mm high stamped along the flat just in from the curved edge from the centre of the cross member then off to the near side . Above the centre hole will be stamped the model type, then the chassis number followed by a sales number. If there is a large stamped number ( about 25mm high) centrally along the horizontal flat of the cross member that is a military part number and indicates a replacement part has been used. However that does not mean military service as old stock was used after the war. The chassis number will show if it was built for the War Dept. Lets know the numbers you find. Most Leylands went to the Royal Flying Corp to be known as tenders, with only a small number being otherwise allocated to civilian use. The wheels on the lorry are a latter conversion as were commonly changed to legally allow for a greater road speed in the 1920's. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Did it belong to Dawson or is it just in their livery, they are still in business and may have some information about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck257 Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) I shall have a dig for the numbers. Mr.Dawson still owns this vehicle it is one of his private collection. He has entrusted me and my company to get it back up to road worthy spec Edited September 8, 2020 by Truck257 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 What work are you doing to get it road worthy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Mike Sutcliffe of the Leyland Society wrote up a description of all the Leyland 'RAF types' in Volume 1 of Leyland Journal which were in production between 1914 and 1931. The war time version was rated as 4 tons and modifications of design was ongoing from before wars start until in 1916 the design was 'locked in'. New designs started to be introduced in 1919. Virtually all parts bore the part no, either cast in or with a brass tag riveted on, The hubs for pneumatic wheels were introduced around 1923, first on the 2 & 3 tonners followed by the heavier models. Some of us have the complete parts list as well as illustrated parts books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck257 Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 The work being carried out on this vehicle is basically an overall check. Change fluids sort out any issues and a full re paint at some point The Leyland Society sounds very useful and I sure will try and get in content with them. Thank you for the info I am yet to retrieve the numbers from the chassis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck257 Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 On 9/11/2020 at 4:35 AM, mammoth said: Mike Sutcliffe of the Leyland Society wrote up a description of all the Leyland 'RAF types' in Volume 1 of Leyland Journal which were in production between 1914 and 1931. The war time version was rated as 4 tons and modifications of design was ongoing from before wars start until in 1916 the design was 'locked in'. New designs started to be introduced in 1919. Virtually all parts bore the part no, either cast in or with a brass tag riveted on, The hubs for pneumatic wheels were introduced around 1923, first on the 2 & 3 tonners followed by the heavier models. Some of us have the complete parts list as well as illustrated parts books. How could I obtain some info for these ? Like illustrations parts books manuals ? As I know these are non existent now but if some people could help me out that would be fantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Parts lists do occasionally turn up (at a price). But if you're searching bear in mind that 'RAF type' is a nickname. Officially they are: Leyland W.O. Subsidy Model, Class A, Type 5000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 A cracking photo of it (and some other early trucks) here: https://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p971350189/h507b4532#h507b4532 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Back issues of Leyland Journal and Torque are still available from Leyland Society. People put a lot of effort into research and publications so there is an unstated expectation that you join and play a part,. As they say nowt for nowt, the more so as you are a commercial operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Back issues of Leyland Journal and Torque are still available from Leyland Society. People put a lot of effort into research and publications so there is an unstated expectation that you join and play a part,. As they say nowt for nowt, the more so as you are a commercial operation. Image from web of model, chassis No and order number location, and they are often as feint as this. Sometimes they are on the near side rather than in the centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 20 hours ago, mammoth said: Back issues of Leyland Journal and Torque are still available from Leyland Society. People put a lot of effort into research and publications so there is an unstated expectation that you join and play a part,. As they say nowt for nowt, the more so as you are a commercial operation. Image from web of model, chassis No and order number location, and they are often as feint as this. Sometimes they are on the near side rather than in the centre. Recognised that photo and those numbers. It's one of the Leylands here in Karl's collection. That has been sent to a few people to assist in locating the stamped numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 The vehicle chassis number should also be on a brass plate attached to the scuttle and visible from the passenger seat. However some have been found to not match, that would indicate a rebuild at some point in time of the vehicle history. It could be a more recent restoration of pieces , or an older rebuild after an accident, with replacement used parts installed. Leyland were also very good at labelling the separate major parts each having a plate describing the part ( abreiviated) and a serial number. The interchangeability of parts in service means swaps of parts took place to keep a vehicle going. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastermike Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Doug, how far have has karl got with the Leyland ? any chance of some pictures of the restoration to date ? ive started putting the 1924 ph 2 back together as a mechanicaly restored vehicle only, not blasting or painting any of it, ive used the sth island chassis and transfered the front half taihape ones mechanicals, got a gearbox and diff internals from steven in aus so its now a viable project look forward to seeing karls pictures and update, mike mike 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 The engine ID plate has : engine type; number; date, so that data would be useful. The nearside radiator side piece is from post war. In the absence of a chassis no to help pin down a date the following will help: The white enameled "driver instruction" plate in the cab changed in 1919, (Leyland Motors 1914 Ltd to just Leyland Motors Ltd ??) to can we have a photo of that, also a close up of the brake cross/compensating shaft support bracket. wheel base measurement The original cast alloy water jacket covers have a habit of corroding to nothing and yours have been replaced with steel plate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck257 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 I shall get the engine numbers and the chassis plate pictured and I love the pictures of that one on solid tyres looks great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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