Another J Type on the way !

[mammoth]

Or use a lathe tailstock die holder

[Tomo.T]

4 hours ago, Richard Farrant said:

Hi Tomo, I use a little trick of putting a hose clip on a die for situations like this, no chance of splitting the die with this method.

Thanks Richard, unfortunately too late for the die in this case !

[Tomo.T]

Sadly no parts or message were received from TI Engineering, so progress has been limited to making gaskets and fitting the cover plates to the cylinders.

I was able to recover some of the original nuts but also had some N.O.S. which are slightly shorter in the hex but otherwise identical. The originals are mostly of the reduced size of Whitworth nuts, (one size smaller across flats) and finished with a single chamfer.

Both short and long hex versions can be seen here, the originals are on the right. If anyone has a good source of these nuts in Whitworth sizes please shout !

A trial fitting of one of the curious inserts, which seal the valve chambers was also carried out. We have three still useable and five are on Mike Lewendon's job list for the New Year.

Here's hoping for a better new year !

Tomo

[Scrunt & Farthing]

Hi Tomo,  I have read your post a couple of times.  What I think I read is that you need pre-war Whit nuts.  If that is right HSS stock them, here:

https://www.heritagesteamsupplies.co.uk/pipe-fittings-studs-nuts-bolts/pre-post-war-whitworth-nuts.html

If I got it wrong, apologies and I wish you a merry Christmas.

S&F (Dave)

[Tomo.T]

Hi Dave, Thanks for that, the original nuts and bolts on 2393 (1915) are almost all of the later 'post war' style, ie, one spanner size smaller, with slightly longer hex and single chamfers. This came as a bit of a surprise to me, as I always thought pre and post war in this instance referred to WW2. It seems clear that there was a similar economy measure in WW1 also.

[BenHawkins]

2 hours ago, Tomo.T said:

Hi Dave, Thanks for that, the original nuts and bolts on 2393 (1915) are almost all of the later 'post war' style, ie, one spanner size smaller, with slightly longer hex and single chamfers. This came as a bit of a surprise to me, as I always thought pre and post war in this instance referred to WW2. It seems clear that there was a similar economy measure in WW1 also.

Many automotive manufacturers were using the smaller across flats head sizes before it was adopted in the standards. There is a 1924 Commercial Motor article describing this but I have some evidence it was going on as early as 1906.

[Doc]

My 1920 Austin tractor is all single chamfer "small" Whitworth. 

Incidentally, I get my nuts and bolts from Trojan Special Fasteners in Birmingham. 

They'll make exactly what you want, but no good ordering ones and twos; I usually order in multiples of 10 feet as this is the standard length in which the hex bar is supplied. 

Hope this helps.

Andy

 

[Tomo.T]

STILL waiting for the Gudgeon pin and bush from TI engineering, (3 months and counting.) So no progress on the crankshaft, apart from keeping the rust at bay.

I therefore went looking for other jobs, which to be fair, didn't take very long to find. First up was the timing cover, which had been languishing in the stores in 'bush find' condition. It cleaned up well with rotary whizzer, but was never one of Mr. Thornycroft's best castings and required some attention to improve the surface for painting.

A good few coats later it was looking more presentable and It was time to tackle the inner side.

Note the hasty machining marks.

A trial fit was attempted and it looks well in position.

The exhaust manifold also cleaned up very nicely and after a bit of a strug locating some satin heat proof black, I eventually found this Techcoat stuff, which buffed up to a most pleasing finish.

Next up is the clutch and brake pedal assembly which is rusted solid. This is another job that I have been avoiding, but the time has come. ...........To be continued .

[Tomo.T]

The pedal assembly fought off most of my attempts at gentle persuasion and it was, once again, Stan to the rescue, with the oxy acetylene  The big guns did the trick and all the joints freed up nicely.

The pedals are showing considerable wear from their former life in Australia.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Tomo.T
Phone trouble.

[Tomo.T]

I also cleaned up the rather dainty throttle pedal which has put in some service too.

Some head lamp brackets were also dug out and cleaned up. These were cast from an original by Lanes of Middlesbrough some time ago. The castings are lovely, but are cast iron, which is probably not ideal for the job. However, they took a thread well and will hopefully do a turn.

All of the above were given a coat of Bonda,  and this is the last of the bits which were waiting for paint.

[Scrunt & Farthing]

It is interesting, Tomo, that your J Type has a throttle pedal as diminutive as my SQ.  On mine, the Clutch and Brake pedals are huge.  And yet the throttle (or accelerating pedal in Leyland vernacular) is no larger than 2 1/2 by 1 1/4.   I don't know, but I guess at the time, the hand throttle was used more.  Perhaps more ofay pre WW2 lorry chaps can enlighten us.

[Tomo.T]

 

 

1 hour ago, Scrunt & Farthing said:

It is interesting, Tomo, that your J Type has a throttle pedal as diminutive as my SQ.  On mine, the Clutch and Brake pedals are huge.  And yet the throttle (or accelerating pedal in Leyland vernacular) is no larger than 2 1/2 by 1 1/4.   I don't know, but I guess at the time, the hand throttle was used more.  Perhaps more ofay pre WW2 lorry chaps can enlighten us.

Hi Dave,

I'm sure the answer here involves the job they have to do. Both clutch and brake need to exert sufficient leverage to operate their respective mechanical contraptions. The throttle on the other hand, only works a linkage against a light spring. I think thats the reason for the comparative lack of stature.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Tomo.T
Linkage not cable.

[andypugh]

1 hour ago, Tomo.T said:

Some head lamp brackets were also dug out and cleaned up. These were cast from an original by Lanes of Middlesbrough some time ago. The castings are lovely, but are cast iron, which is probably not ideal for the job.

I wonder if it would be helpful to drill the centre of the thread and the spigots to bond in some mild-steel rods, to "catch" the lamp in the event that the cast iron cracks? 

Though it probably won't. 

[Tomo.T]

40 minutes ago, andypugh said:

I wonder if it would be helpful to drill the centre of the thread and the spigots to bond in some mild-steel rods, to "catch" the lamp in the event that the cast iron cracks? 

Though it probably won't. 

Hi Andy, yes, I have been pondering this one as well. The chassis ends are big enough to look after themselves (I think,) but the arms are a weak point and there is not enough material to reinforce them internally or to replace them entirely with steel ones.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Tomo.T
More info

[IAN_B]

On 1/24/2021 at 6:25 AM, Tomo.T said:

The pedal assembly fought off most of my attempts at gentle persuasion and it was, once again, Stan to the rescue, with the oxy acetylene  The big guns did the trick and all the joints freed up nicely.

 

Oxy-acetylene is the only way in such circumstances - glad they came good.

 

[Tomo.T]

Hi Ian, I have found the 'Ozrust' is a strange thing, it will usually form a light coating on exposed surfaces and clean off easily, but internal shafts are prone to seizing up solid and will put up a good fight ! 

[Tomo.T]

I decided the accelerator pedal had reached retirement age and set about removing it. This was much easier once I'd discovered and removed the pin which was holding it. In fact that's all there was, as the parts were not threaded. 

In a moment of weakness, Stan has offered to turn me up a replacement. Thanks Mate!  Also cleaned up the shaft and applied new washer and split pin. 

 Elswhere the lamp brackets have been garnished with spigot pins and 1 inch Whit nuts and have acquired A couple of coats of Service Colour. They look the part, let's hope they will do the job.

[Tomo.T]

I have decided to paint all the controls in satin black, which matches a model built by Thornycroft of one of the last Military J types. Much as I like Service Colour, its good to have some contrast and this will make the controls stand out from their surroundings and match the steering wheel. This might well have been the original finish, which of course, would not have lasted past the first Army repaint, but I'd like to see how it looks.

We also managed to straighten out the pedal shaft on Pete Read's press, the slight kink in it was bugging me !  Pete also spotted that the accelerator pedal matches the diameter of the old valves, one of which will be used to make a replacement. Recycling indeed.

Also cleaned up another present from 'Rosso', in the shape of a grease pot which has found a new home in the pedal arm. These are marked up by a maker in Sydney, which is quite appropriate. I have plenty of jobs for these. Thanks Dave.

[Tomo.T]

No. 4 con rod has arrived back from his holidays and has rejoined the team on the crankshaft. Some problems were encountered settling in parts new and old and Stan took over the job for a bit of engine whispering.

 

Stan discovered various problems, including mis placed shims, which had been individually fitted, but not marked to their original positions. This created a good puzzle, which was further complicated by slightly oversized big end bolts, causing pressure on the bearing cups and shims.

Some 'easing' was carried out and one by one the big ends were made to revolve smoothly again.  

Once I had drilled and fitted the split pins, it was time to turn over the block ready for the long awaited engine build up.

One of the camshafts is wanting attention to the oil pump drive socket. It has been welded up by Stan and is awaiting a good slotting by Mike Lewendon. As soon as this is done and fitted, we are on with the build up.

[Tomo.T]

I arrived at the workshop to find Mike busy slotting the built up camshaft on his newly acquired CNC mill.

The mill was enjoying it's breakfast and quickly produced the required slot. 

I replaced the gear (and the cam followers,) before refitting the camshaft into the crankcase, being sure to match up the timing marks again.

This is an awkward procedure and the two bushes must be aligned to fit the locking screws as well. In the absence of a trained octopus, this took a while, but eventually everything was lined up and locked down. We celebrated with  a trial run, with man power replacing internal combustion. This is a rather difficult instrument to play, so forgive the clonking about, but the proof is in the turning !

[Tomo.T]

It's  been a long time coming, but build up day finaly arrived and we had a pile of bits waiting to go.

Fitting the pistons was straight forward enough, remembering to stick the base gaskets down first, also the Gudgeon pin retaining clips needed to be poised in position underneath their slots.

With Stan on the fork lift the cylinders were gently lowered and the rings individually compressed by hand. There is a substantial lead chamfer, which helped considerably with this.

The upper piston of the two was supported on wooden slats to start with and these were removed once the rings had engaged in the bore.

Stan took some very fine engine pics and here's  a selection to drool over !

Happy Easter !

[Scrunt & Farthing]

That looks magnificent, Tomo.  You must be very pleased.     

[Tomo.T]

Thanks, yes it's really coming together now.👍

[Rootes75]

Excellent work, looks very good.

[Tomo.T]

Another burst of progress has occured and the engine is looking ever more lovely, as various trinkets have been replaced. I  was warned to nip up the inlet and exhaust manifolds with the cylinder base nuts loosened, to insure alignment between the separate blocks . This was done, but no movement was detected and all the bits have cosied up nicely.

 

I need to find some old style gaskets for these which I hope will take up any slight discrepancies. The originals were asbestos, with thin brass foil each side, so I need to find  suitable replacements, in more socially acceptable material. Anyone have any suggestions please  ?

Stan has pinged me some fine detail shots which I will post separately as I am unable to get my different photo albums to play nicely together !