DINGODOUG Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hi Mike, I have just read this and wonder whether the problem might be electrical. I had similar running problems with my Daimler armoured car which turned out to be plug leads which had broken down. The engine started and ran but wouldnt rev and had no power as it was only under load when the electrical integrity of the leads broke down. Similar symptoms occur with a dodgy condenser. Sorry if I have picked up the wrong end of the stick but I never had such problems with Solex carbs in Dingos, Daimler AC or Champs. Doug 41]Hi folks, I've got an on-going issue with a customer's Dingo on which I would appreciate some advice (in return for which I will happily make a donation to the forum :-).) The vehicle has been off the road for a couple of years and Richard Farrant very kindly gave me his advice on the finer points of replacing the outer hub oil seals, which was not the most fun job I've ever done. The other major job on it was to sort out the poor running - to be blunt it ran like a dog, with clouds of smoke and sooting up the middle plugs. We concluded the carb was at fault and it was rebuilt by a relative of the customer. He found it was full of crud and the diaphragms were all shot. It is now better but still not right. If you rev it up to around 1/3 revs and then hold the throttle steady it will start to back off and will die completely if the throttle remains held at the same setting. With the air cleaner off, covering 90% of the intake causes it to tick over more slowly but it will then rev up much better. I don't believe it's an air leak anywhere as I've sprayed carb cleaner all round the carb, gaskets and inlet manifold joints with no change in revs. It will drive on full choke but is very rough. Unsurprisingly it is un-driveable off choke as there is no power at all and the engine just wants to die. Petrol is mostly fresh mixed with a small amount of old, but smells fine. The idle mixture jet appears to do very little - when screwed all the way in there is a very slight increase in revs, otherwise it appears to have very little effect. It is currently set at approx 1 turn out as this is the least bad position for it. The lift pump is producing a good volume of fuel at a very healthy-looking pressure. I was just wondering if this could be caused by incorrect float level as there is a small amount of petrol seeping from the joint at the top of the float housing. However the manual does not show how to set the float or the lever it operates. I have heard these carbs can be a horror and that Dingo's always run rich - any comments welcome! I hope i've covered all the relevant points. Thanks in advance - MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singaeger Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I am hoping to take Singe up on his offer of a known good carb as we need to start eliminating components. I also hope to ask him to bring a set of plugs, leads and distributor cap so we can address that side of it too. Mike I replied to this, this morning but it appears to have vanished? Should be able to come down to you on Saterday 10th if that helps, what dizzy do you have the round top or rectangular topped one? If in doubt post a photo. will bring with me the following proven items coil plugs complete dizzy ( square top type) with leads dizzy round top with leads new condensor good MK2 carb ive a 42 workshop manual that mentions over fueling at the carb and recommends to putting two card gaskets under the fuel pump to reduce the delivery rate. its an easy job to worth a try. ive also had some problems with the spary jet delivering too mich fuel via the accelarator pump and flooding the middle two cylinders same as you. ( it is after all simply throwing neat petrol down the bore) Make sure the accelerator is functioning properly and that the tiny brass/glass/steel ball and seat are in good clean condition. found that differant thickness washers have been used under the needle valve brass seat. these range from 1-3.5mm in thickness. ive added aditional washers under some of my carb valves....this both lowers the float hieght and reduces the amount of fuel present. It appears to reduce the richness of the mixture slightly. dingo carbs are a black art . Ive several, some of which also run dog rough for no apperant reason. ive had them completely appart and they do not appear to be any differant in setup to the good ones? interestingly swapping float bowls ( where most of the jets reside) makes no differance so theres something going on within the main body that ive not yet figured out see you saterday/ singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Just a thought - I had similar symptoms with my Lwt LR which was fitted with a new carb. Apart from a small piece of swarf in the needle valve, which was easy to spot, I later found that the O ring (of inferior manufacture) between the upper and lower halves of the carb expanded when in contact with fuel, which caused internal flooding. This was not apparent from a visual inspection, and the last thing I expected on a new carb. Just to complicate my problem I also had a float that broke and had a new one fitted that despite being the 'correct part for a Zenith' was in fact too big and it rubbed against the inside of the carb. So check the carb refurb parts and their fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Hi Mike, I have just read this and wonder whether the problem might be electrical. I had similar running problems with my Daimler armoured car which turned out to be plug leads which had broken down. The engine started and ran but wouldnt rev and had no power as it was only under load when the electrical integrity of the leads broke down. Similar symptoms occur with a dodgy condenser.Sorry if I have picked up the wrong end of the stick but I never had such problems with Solex carbs in Dingos, Daimler AC or Champs. Doug Thanks Doug, Once we've got a known good carb it will be a lot easier to track down the problem one way or another. I have heard these carbs are known for running rich and that they are known to foul up plugs 3 & 4, but like you, some people say they don't give any trouble at all! People's experiences may just be luck of the draw regarding the component quality. - MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Mike I replied to this, this morning but it appears to have vanished? Should be able to come down to you on Saterday 10th if that helps, what dizzy do you have the round top or rectangular topped one? If in doubt post a photo. will bring with me the following proven items coil plugs complete dizzy ( square top type) with leads dizzy round top with leads new condensor good MK2 carb ive a 42 workshop manual that mentions over fueling at the carb and recommends to putting two card gaskets under the fuel pump to reduce the delivery rate. its an easy job to worth a try. ive also had some problems with the spary jet delivering too mich fuel via the accelarator pump and flooding the middle two cylinders same as you. ( it is after all simply throwing neat petrol down the bore) Make sure the accelerator is functioning properly and that the tiny brass/glass/steel ball and seat are in good clean condition. found that differant thickness washers have been used under the needle valve brass seat. these range from 1-3.5mm in thickness. ive added aditional washers under some of my carb valves....this both lowers the float hieght and reduces the amount of fuel present. It appears to reduce the richness of the mixture slightly. dingo carbs are a black art . Ive several, some of which also run dog rough for no apperant reason. ive had them completely appart and they do not appear to be any differant in setup to the good ones? interestingly swapping float bowls ( where most of the jets reside) makes no differance so theres something going on within the main body that ive not yet figured out see you saterday/ singe Thanks Singe, Saturday will be fine for me thanks. I'll PM you my address and directions in the next couple of days. Regarding the points you mention - there are two fibre washers under the float needle valve with a combined thickness of around 3mm. I tried removing one but then the valve doesn't fully close and it really does flood (everywhere!). Thanks and regards - MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Regarding the points you mention - there are two fibre washers under the float needle valve with a combined thickness of around 3mm. I tried removing one but then the valve doesn't fully close and it really does flood (everywhere!). Mike, That is a good indication that the float arm is bent out of true, allowing the float to rise too high. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Mike,That is a good indication that the float arm is bent out of true, allowing the float to rise too high. regards, Richard Richard, That would make sense, and of course despite changing the float bowl, it would still have been the same arm. I believe it was changed as part of the rebuild but that doesn't mean it's set up correctly! Looking at the rather poor quality drawings in the manual it seems to show two washers in this location but it is not very clear. - MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Richard, That would make sense, and of course despite changing the float bowl, it would still have been the same arm. I believe it was changed as part of the rebuild but that doesn't mean it's set up correctly! Looking at the rather poor quality drawings in the manual it seems to show two washers in this location but it is not very clear. - MG Mike, Only one washer used under the float needle valve, the edge of the valve has a lip making it look like two washers. To confirm, only one listed in the parts list. I do not recall that arm being in overall kits for this carb. Just rebuilt one recently too. If it was not changed then this might have been the problem initially (before carb was rebuilt). regards, Richard Edited January 7, 2015 by Richard Farrant added info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Mike,Only one washer used under the float needle valve, the edge of the valve has a lip making it look like two washers. To confirm, only one listed in the parts list. I do not recall that arm being in overall kits for this carb. Just rebuilt one recently too. If it was not changed then this might have been the problem initially (before carb was rebuilt). regards, Richard Thanks Richard, There are definitely two fibre washers there as I was surprised to see them, but as I said, with only one the arm will not physically go far enough up to fully close off the valve. Maybe this is the problem after all. Sadly I'm away on business so cannot go and look at it but I'll investigate first thing on Saturday. - MG Edited January 7, 2015 by TooTallMike grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi all, I am pleased to report that with the invaluable help of Singe and some known good components removed from his own vehicles we have managed to get the Dingo running a lot better. First a good carb was fitted so that we knew that side of things was ok. It still ran badly but maybe a little better. Six new spark plugs were then swapped in and the ignition timing was tweaked and it ran a lot better. We then re-fitted the old carb and it ran worse again. We shimmed the float needle valve out with another washer to further reduce the fuel level in the float chamber and the small seal on top of the emulsion tubes was replaced as it didn't seem to have been done in the rebuild. After that Singe drove it up and down the drive and declared that it wasn't too bad. It seems there is something wrong in the top of the carb but we cannot work out what as there's not a great deal there. We think it would benefit from a replacement carb but they are rare and expensive. My gut feeling is that if it gives any problems in the future we should look at adapting a more modern carb onto it. (of course I'd be fitting a Cummins if I had my way :cool2:). Anyway I have a set of plugs on their way and then hopefully it can be returned to its happy owner. Many thanks to all on here who have given their thoughts, and special thanks to Singe and ChrisG for their loan of parts and their expertise. Cheers - MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singaeger Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Just to clarify. with my carb fitted and plugs and timing reset it had a very crisp throttle response with no hesitancy what'soever. with the original carb, it. accelerated but more sluggishly and appeared to have a flat spot from low rev acceleration. Swapped my float bowl (where most of the jets live) and made of noticeable difference. After changing the seal in the carb top and replacing the original float bowl things were better but still not as good as my carb. However drove it down the lane quite easily and as final test pulled away from a standing start in 4th gear. The engine pulled cleanly through the revs with no problem so the car is quite drivable. I understand it had before only managed 100 feet before it conked out before. with regards the plug these were the original lodges with WD stamps.... God knows how long they had been in the engine and no wonder they were not helping the engine to run well. thanks for an entertaining day Mike & Chris (and free fry up from your mother in law). If you need any help again please get in touch. Singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenjacket Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 My thanks to Mike, Chris and Singe for their expertise and to Richard a fount of knowledge on things armoured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Hi all, I am pleased to report that with the invaluable help of Singe and some known good components removed from his own vehicles we have managed to get the Dingo running a lot better. First a good carb was fitted so that we knew that side of things was ok. It still ran badly but maybe a little better. Six new spark plugs were then swapped in and the ignition timing was tweaked and it ran a lot better. We then re-fitted the old carb and it ran worse again. We shimmed the float needle valve out with another washer to further reduce the fuel level in the float chamber and the small seal on top of the emulsion tubes was replaced as it didn't seem to have been done in the rebuild. After that Singe drove it up and down the drive and declared that it wasn't too bad. It seems there is something wrong in the top of the carb but we cannot work out what as there's not a great deal there. We think it would benefit from a replacement carb but they are rare and expensive. My gut feeling is that if it gives any problems in the future we should look at adapting a more modern carb onto it. (of course I'd be fitting a Cummins if I had my way :cool2:). 6BT I hope :nut: Anyway I have a set of plugs on their way and then hopefully it can be returned to its happy owner. Many thanks to all on here who have given their thoughts, and special thanks to Singe and ChrisG for their loan of parts and their expertise. Cheers - MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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