Trailer

[Markheliops]

Hi all.

 

As my Ward la France is a bit thirsty :cry: I have been thinking about purchasing a means of transporting it about.

 

I have my eye on a M52 Reo tractor unit but I am unsure if a normal low loader trailer will fit this unit.

 

The standard trailer for the M52 Reo is hard to come by so my question is will a standard low loader / 20 ton plant trailer fit this vehicle.

 

Any advice will be a great help. :-D

 

Thanks chaps / and chapettes.

 

Mark

[TooTallMike]

Two words - Cummins Diesel :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Markheliops]

Well done Mike - you have the job!!! :-D

 

Let me know when you get hold of a suitable engine and I'll let you know when I can bring the Ward over to you. :-D

 

Besides, in relation to what we have been talking about - not going to get armour on the back of my Ward and it won't help anyone else.

 

For those of you wondering what we are referring to - :dunno:

I am trying to get hold of a low loader or similar.

 

If I manage to get hold of something, I will be in a position to offer assistance to members if they need to transport their pride and joy to a show or workshop.

 

I thought it would be a good idea. Take the Salisbury trip - would cost me about £250 in fuel, silly amount of hours and then there's the matter if the Ward will get there and back without any problems. What happens if something breaks on the Plain?

 

I know I can get breakdown insurance but I can't be dealing with all the small print in the policies. For instance, for those of you with large dangles :-D - who decide to transverse a very steep hill or tank obstacle - are you covered if you break something. I'm not saying you aren't but I would check to make sure.

 

So, I am on the lookout for a low loader and unit. I seen an M52 and I don't know if a standard trailer will fit. Anyone know!!!

 

Cheers

 

Mark

 

[TooTallMike]

I have a second Cummins C series sitting in our yard when you're ready for it :-D. It needs rebuilding but then so did mine :naughty:

 

Re. M52 compatibility with a civvy trailer, I suggest you visit http://www.steelsoldiers.com. It's the best resource on the web for M-series info. If you can't find what you want to know by searching there, just post a question. It's a slow site but WELL worth waiting for.

[Markheliops]

Cheers Mike - I'll give it a go.

[Mark]

Try this link

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=10418&highlight=m52

 

or do a search on steelsoldiers.com as Mike says

[Adrian Barrell]

and bear in mind it will have to be plated and tested......

[TooTallMike]

and bear in mind it will have to be plated and tested......

 

 

And remember that applies to both the tractor and trailer. The tractor unit won't pass without modifications such as having the headlights re-positioned lower down, dipped beam direction changed, side lights and indicators modified to flash as per UK spec. (easy mod.; I've done it to the MUTT) and I seem to recall there's an issue relating to the brakes because the 2.5- and 5-ton M series trucks run air assisted hydraulic systems which may not meet C&U reg's (I may be wrong about this - I'm trying to remember where I heard it).

 

You should also keep an eye on the overall length of the rig with a bonneted tractor unit.

 

As well as ride height, you should check the fifth wheel pin size as the military may use heavier-duty pins.

 

As a general rule, the older the tractor unit is, the fewer C&U reg's it will have to comply with :roll:

[TooTallMike]

Mark,

 

Any progress on this?

 

Thought of another problem for you (sorry :roll:): An M52 is a 5-ton tractor unit.

That means the plate in the cab will say 5 tons on road (tractor unit payload). Now we all know that a military 5-ton rating means it's actually good for 25 tons, but VOSA will only plate and test it based on what it says on the data plate. You'd have to do gawd knows what to get it up-rated.

 

Also, talking to the guys at our yard the general consensus is you'll have real hassle with getting the air-assisted hydraulic braking system through a test.

[Richard Grosvenor]

Have you thought about getting a normal civy tractor unit? I know it won't have the same image as a Military based one but it will be alot easier to get plated not to mention be faster , more comfortable and more suited to long distances.

We've got a Renault Magnum 420 and with it's large cab it's ideal for weekends away....well it would be if I had the time to go!

The only warning I would give about going down this route is to remember that modern second hand tractor units while being cheap to buy still have huge running costs and the man at the test station couldn't care less that you only use it a few weekends a year. It will still have to comply to the same standard as a truck hauling 44tonnes 7 days a week.

Saying that road tax is incredibly cheap for a Private HGV. How does £165 a year sound! 8-) And you won't need an operators license if you don't carry anyone else's property for hire or reward.

 

regards

Richard

 

[Marmite!!]

Remember never overload your trailer :-D

 

http://www.blog.solarhaven.org/BurroCart2ADJ.jpg[/img]

[Markheliops]

Thanks for all the information and advice chaps.

 

The M52 fell through but I haven't given up on the idea yet.

 

I am looking into the possibility of having a unit and trailer licenced as recovery equipment.

 

Not sure of the implications as yet but as far as I am aware, if licenced as recovery, plating should not be an issue. :dunno:

 

May be barking up the wrong tree but there are ways around the issue of plating, etc.

 

Will keep you all updated and any other thoughts or info will be greatly excepted.

 

May admit defeat and look for a decent civi unit and trailer.

 

Cheers

 

Mark

[Grumpy]

Mark

 

Only recovery vehicles that are of the suspended tow are exempt from plating, trailers, beaver tails etc. are not exempt from plating. My militant is registered as recovery and exempt from plating, however as soon as I put a trailer on the back it is no longer exempt. Currently recovery vehicles are also exempt from operators licence but the law is changing very shortly (end of June I think) so that an operator’s licence will be required.

 

How heavy is the WLF, I run a Volvo FL10 Beavertail, with a 28' x 8' bed and an 11-ton payload, which we use to drag the Stalwart around. You can pick up something similar for 3k - 4k, £165 a year for tax and Footman James were happy to include it on the MV insurance policy and because its Private HGV its operator licence exempt. As far as plating is concerned as long as you keep on top of the maintenance and the trucks in good condition when you purchase you shouldn’t have too many problems.

 

[Mark]

Do you need a special licence for the Volvo Grumpy ? HGV or anything

[TooTallMike]

Grumpy,

 

I'm looking at buying a drawbar trailer for my Ward to transport a CVRT. I accept the trailer will have to be plated and tested but I was under the strong impression the truck didn't need to be because as body type 'recovery' it is exempt even when used as a heavy locomotive. I thought I would also remain exempt from the new 'O' licence regs because I'm private (like a Private HGV). My truck is also exempt testing because of its age if not towing a trailer.

 

Have I made a boo boo?

 

- Mike

[Grumpy]

Do you need a special licence for the Volvo Grumpy ? HGV or anything

 

 

You need your HGV "C" category or in the old days class 2. I know a few people drive under a normal licence using the "Mobile Project Vehicle" to drive post 1960 vehicles have a look here on page 4 section R.

 

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/leaflets/inf52.pdf

 

Mike

 

The vehicle ceases to become a recovery vehicle as soon as you put a trailer on the back, remember a recovery vehicle can only be used on the road to recover a recently broken down vehicle either un-loaded on its way or with the vehicle on board, it can also be driven on the road for general service and maintenance duties i.e. road testing after a service, but it should not be used as a general run around, technically you are breaking the law just taking it to a show unless you are on you way to pick up a broken down MV :whistle: As far as the new “O” licence regulations again another grey area, your lucky as the WLF is pre 1960 so exempt from plating anyway so you don’t need the recovery status to be exempt and as you say as a private user also exempt from “O” licence. Be very careful with the private use though, it must be “not for hire or reward”; there have been a few cases recently where the ministry have successfully prosecuted Stock car drivers and Horse Box owners driving under “Private HGV” on their way to or back from an event where prizes were given and they classed this as reward

 

Heavy / Light Locomotive are very useful categories :-D and are exempt from MOT / Plating, however you need to consult the “Road Traffic Act 1988” to make sure your vehicle complies.

 

Have a look here section 185

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880052_en_1.htm

 

[Markheliops]

Hi Grumpy.

 

You seem to have your head round all the rules, etc - :-D

 

SO-

 

If I purchased a pre 1960 Reo M52 and trailer to carry my Ward la France -

 

Would I be except from plating regulations????????? :dunno:

 

Driver licencing isn't an issue as I hold all cats on my licence.

 

Thanks

 

Markheliops

[TooTallMike]

...vehicle ceases to become a recovery vehicle as soon as you put a trailer on the back, remember a recovery vehicle can only be used on the road to recover a recently broken down vehicle either un-loaded on its way or with the vehicle on board, it can also be driven on the road for general service and maintenance duties i.e. road testing after a service, but it should not be used as a general run around, technically you are breaking the law just taking it to a show unless you are on you way to pick up a broken down MV :whistle:

 

Grumpy,

 

Thanks for all the info. I find this whole thing fascinating as the legislation is just not designed with us in mind.

 

I've quoted part of your post above here. I don't consider that to apply to me as the Ward is registered as Historic not as a Recovery although that IS it's body type on the V5.

 

I think I remember that you tow a trailer? so is your Militant plated?

What are you going to do about the 'O' licence?

 

As regards mine, my train of logic goes like this:

 

Truck is exempt from plating because:

1. it's Historic (which supersedes all other categories)

2. if I turn up at a test station to get it plated, what are they going to test it as? It's a recovery truck and therefore exempt

3. it's not carrying any load and is therefore acting as a heavy motor car, or a heavy locomotive if towing a trailer (like a ballast tractor)

 

I think I'm going to take the truck to our local test station and see what they say.

 

Mark - a pre-1960 trailer is still only exempt from plating if you aren't carrying a load. The moment you put anything on it, it has to be tested. I'd say the grey area is in the tow vehicle.

[Adrian Barrell]

The exemption from Plating and testing for our stuff is as follows:-

 

Goods vehicles first used before January 1 1960, used unladen and not drawing a laden trailer and trailers manufactured before January 1 1960 and used unladen.

 

So, if you pull a trailer with a load on, you are not exempt for the truck or the trailer. Regarding an articulated vehicle, the trailer is considered a load for the truck even if the trailer is empty.

The exemption for testing also removes the need for an HGV licence to drive it.

In the real world you can get away with a lot simply because most people in the relevant government departments don't know the regulations. It's all good till there is a problem such as the unfortunate accident in Holland mentioned elsewhere. Then the police and your insurance company get very interested in the letter of the law....

[Grumpy]

 

I think I remember that you tow a trailer? so is your Militant plated?

What are you going to do about the 'O' licence?

 

 

The Militant might be re-registered as a Heavy Locomotive :dunno:

 

 

 

As regards mine, my train of logic goes like this:

 

Truck is exempt from plating because:

1. it's Historic (which supersedes all other categories)

 

 

Just because its taxation class is Historic doesn’t make it exempt from MOT / Plating for example a 1972 Landrover is eligible for Historic tax but it still needs to be MOT'ed. It’s the vehicle type / and / or use that makes it exempt.

 

 

3. it's not carrying any load and is therefore acting as a heavy motor car, or a heavy locomotive if towing a trailer (like a ballast tractor)

 

 

 

Only if it is registered as such

 

The exemption for testing also removes the need for an HGV licence to drive it.

 

 

Not strictly true the two are not connected, a 22-ton recovery truck is exempt from plating but still requires a class "C" to drive it

 

 

In the real world you can get away with a lot simply because most people in the relevant government departments don't know the regulations. It's all good till there is a problem such as the unfortunate accident in Holland mentioned elsewhere. Then the police and your insurance company get very interested in the letter of the law....

 

 

Very true and if you ask two people in the same department you would get different interpretations of the law, but remember just because a vehicle is exempt from plating you can still take it to a test station for a voluntary test or even just a voluntary brake test which is where the Militant is going shortly.

 

[TooTallMike]

Very true and if you ask two people in the same department you would get different interpretations of the law, but remember just because a vehicle is exempt from plating you can still take it to a test station for a voluntary test or even just a voluntary brake test which is where the Militant is going shortly.

 

 

If you present a recovery vehicle for voluntary testing what do they test it as? Do they just treat it as they would a truck of the same age?

[Grumpy]

If you present a recovery vehicle for voluntary testing what do they test it as? Do they just treat it as they would a truck of the same age?

 

 

Yes

[Adrian Barrell]

 

 

Not strictly true the two are not connected, a 22-ton recovery truck is exempt from plating but still requires a class "C" to drive it

 

 

 

 

I was refering to the age related exemption, i.e. pre 1960 used unladen.

[TooTallMike]

Well, after some considerable discussion in our mess room, my group are convinced a recovery vehicle doesn't require plating and testing in the case of towing a laden trailer because it is an exempt class of vehicle. The 'Goods vehicle built before 1960 and used unladen' part is irreleveant because it is not a goods vehicle, ie. it is not designed to carry a load (for the purposes of C&U a vehicle being lifted or towed is not a load).

 

I'm going to speak to a friend who used to be a chief tester and see what he thinks.

 

I remain open to other people's interpretations of the law but if I can satisfy myself that I'm legal I'll go ahead.

[TooTallMike]

Regarding an articulated vehicle, the trailer is considered a load for the truck even if the trailer is empty.

 

 

Sorry but I disagree with this too I'm afraid . You can drive an M26 Pacific and trailer unplated and untested and on a car licence ('B', pre-1997 licence) as long as it's unladen. Ditto a Diamond T 981 and Rogers, Pioneer and S&D tank transporter etc.

[Adrian Barrell]

I'm not saying it's not done or that the authorities will not allow it, just that, I seem to remember reading in official paperwork that an articulated trailer is considered a load for the tractor unit whether laden or not. Quoting Diamond T and Rogers combinations is a complete red herring as they are not an articulated rig.