fv1609 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I was never really sure about the stories that one member of a firing squad was given a blank round; so that all the squad could console themselves that it was maybe their gun that fired the blank. But here is the explanation in gruesome detail. I have not posted this to be in any way entertaining, but it does give a sombre insight as to the bottom line of discipline in the British Army. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/fv1620/Shot01.jpg[/img] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/fv1620/Shot02.jpg[/img] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/fv1620/Shot03.jpg[/img] I would be interested to see how closely people could guess the age of these instructions. Have a go; I will give the date at the end of the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardyferret Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I suspect possibly late fifties for these!! Kardyferret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Quite recent I'd say. 1960's? Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 1964 latest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I say 1970's Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I'd go for the 1950's too - I think the penalty was suspended just after the civil penalty was abolished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john wheatley (R.I.P.) Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I don't know much about the army but the spelling "serjeant" makes me think mebbe early twentieth or late nineteenth century :? John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Regarding the blank rounds, anybody would know as soon as they fired that they had a blank. I can't really see the point. :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Regarding the blank rounds, anybody would know as soon as they fired that they had a blank. I can't really see the point. :dunno: Fired alone - you're probably right but fired in volley I think it might be harder to tell, esp. given the target and thus the likely frame of mind of the poor sod pulling the trigger........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Fired alone - you're probably right but fired in volley I think it might be harder to tell, esp. given the target and thus the likely frame of mind of the poor sod pulling the trigger........... They were probably wooden tipped blanks so there would be little difference.. & without a shredder could still kill anyway.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 They were probably wooden tipped blanks so there would be little difference.. & without a shredder could still kill anyway.. So what would be the point? I must admit, I've never heard of such a thing. A military blank round is just that, a blank, and produces no recoil at all. A .303 ball produces plenty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 So what would be the point? I must admit, I've never heard of such a thing. A military blank round is just that, a blank, and produces no recoil at all. A .303 ball produces plenty! They were originally used in the Vickers MG & Bren which was fitted with a shredder, they are still about too.. frightening as recently some re-enactors in the States have been using them in bolt action rifles.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I'd go for the 1950's too - I think the penalty was suspended just after the civil penalty was abolished. According to the BBC, the civil death penalty was "(Abolition of Death Penalty) Act 1965", so in which case, if your reasoning is correct, I'm guessing the orders were applied up until the late 1960's. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 They were originally used in the Vickers MG & Bren which was fitted with a shredder, they are still about too.. frightening as recently some re-enactors in the States have been using them in bolt action rifles.. So they were presumably used for training to allow automatic fire.... learn something new every day! Probably not what was used in the execution though......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 So they were presumably used for training to allow automatic fire.... learn something new every day! Probably not what was used in the execution though......? Probably not used but would produce the same recoil though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Dredging the memory - I seem to recall wax-tipped blanks being available in 7.62mm format for training - used in SLR's (without BFA's) LMG's and GPMG's, .303 was before my time apart from the cadets. Gave the necessary recoil to work the actions but the wax dispersed as it left the barrel Any one else remember such things?? Or am I mixing them up with something else?? If I'm right - were such things available in .303 or earlier calibres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saracenstump Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 we used bullited blank many moons ago with the bren gun when i was in the army cadets,they were used with the shredder barrel so the working parts of the gun didn't jam through lack of gas.very nasty at close range even with the shredder at the end!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/fv1620/Shot04.jpg[/img] But it is only relatively recently that the death penalty has been abolished for all offences. In November 1965 the death penalty for murder was suspended for 5 years. In December 1969 the death penalty for murder was abolished. The death penalty remained theoretically available in Northern Ireland until the passing of the Northern Ireland (Emergency Powers) Act 1973. In July 1998, The Criminal Justice Bill removed High Treason and piracy with violence as capital crimes. In October 1998, the Government introduced an amendment to the Human Rights Bill that abolished the death penalty as a possible punishment for military offences under the Armed Forces Acts. There were 5 military wartime capital offences: serious misconduct in action, communicating with the enemy, aiding the enemy or furnishing supplies, obstructing operations or giving false air signals, mutiny to incitement to mutiny or failure to suppress a mutiny. On 27 January 1999, the UK Home Secretary (The Labour MP Jack Straw) signed the 6th protocol of the European Convention of Human Rights in Strasbourg. This move formally abolished the death penalty in the UK. The last execution under military law was in 1942. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Good stuff and good point about serjeant with a 'j'. Don't know whether this is fully given up. if you use CWGC search a lot you will always find it, but their online records do not go past the 1940s. I think the Serjeant at Arms in Parliament is still spelt with a J. I digress.... someone will know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghasp! Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This threat has dredged back some memories of my grandfather, who signed up under-age for the Great War. I remember him saying (and this is the scary bit because I recon it means he was actually in a firing squad on a number of occasions) that the officer palmed the round when he loaded it, so you couldn't actually see the type of round. But I also remember him saying, it didn't do any good as you knew as soon as you pulled the trigger that you'd fired a blank or a live round. I guess by that time it was too late to make much difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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