JeffHall Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hi I recently joined the forum not because I have a massive military vehicle bent, but because it seemed to hold lots of information on ex-military recovery vehicles. I'm currently looking into whether an ex-mil Scammel EKA or Foden would make a suitable vehicle for us to use for recovering our coaches. Nothing particularly long distance or that big n heavy, just a bit more advanced than a converted tractor unit and a bar! The only weakness I've noticed so far is the lack of 'reach' on the underlift, something that can obviously be overcome with a little engineering. These are some of the numbers I'm looking to work with, if anyone has experience or advice I'd love to hear it! I need these sort of loads/reach. (Metres to the centre of the front axle) 6tonne @ ~2.6M 4.5 tonne @ ~2.8-3.0M Max casualty weight of between 12 & 18tonnes. Many thanks Jeff Hall Terrys Coach Hire - Coventry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Welcome Jeff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLUF Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Welcome, Ironside at A Long recovery should be able to help you with your questions.... as he uses ex militray kit... guess you will need a coach boom for the coaches and buses... http://www.alongrecovery.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hi I recently joined the forum not because I have a massive military vehicle bent, but because it seemed to hold lots of information on ex-military recovery vehicles. I'm currently looking into whether an ex-mil Scammel EKA or Foden would make a suitable vehicle for us to use for recovering our coaches. Hi Jeff, You need to get in contact with Cosrec on this forum, he is in the recovery business and has just lengthened the boom on a Foden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
private mw Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 hi welcome to the forum yes agree cosrec is the man on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane.c Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Welcome to HMVF, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 hi welcome to HMVF. Will try and put some thoughts in writing over the next few days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenivers Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Welcome aboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Re the Scammell Foden ex services first of all let me stress they are both excellent bits of kit for what they were designed for recovery of in service military vehicles’. Unfortunately this does not mean they are any good for suspend towing modern day commercial vehicles/coaches. Although either in standard set up would be better than a standard road going unit for straight tows having more weight. For suspend tows they both have 3 basic failings 1 the under lift boom is too short to reach the front axle of most commercials and coaches more so. The scammell has an extension boom that can be fitted but I doubt this would be long enough to reach and would with out doubt crunch the front of you coach before starting to lift due to the way it is designed. 2 the t head design is not like modern practice being drop in from the top this also makes positioning under modern low slung air suspended vehicles a pain 3 the geometry of the bottom boom means that the boom is at about 3ft of the floor on the scammell 4ft6in on the Foden when parallel with the floor ideally on modern vehicles it should be around the 1 ft mark. There are things you can do to solve these problems and would be willing to write a bit more if it helps. As to being able to actually recover your coaches from any situation they ended up in to a position ready for towing it would be no sweat to either vehcle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-Five-Two Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Welcome aboard Jeff. I have seen and used a Crusader for coach recovery, there was a gang up London way had one a few years back. The boom had been re-invented with an extra hydraulic extension that easily reached under a coach front, and extra counterweights fitted to the front bumper. Worked very well, but I don't know who carried out the conversion. I think I am right in saying that if you get a wrecker converted like that, it then has to be certified for lifting capability to get your insurance cover. Could work out expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffHall Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 Thanks Guys :-) Cosrec you've nailed what I presumed would be the Scammell / Foden weakness with the EKA system as fitted, I had pretty much figured the extending boom would have to be re-created / extended / modified to suit the reach requirements of lifting a coach from the axle. I always assumed I'd junk the std EKA drop in cross heads in favour of a conventional Interstater style bar & forks anyway, even moreso if rebuilding the extending boom. I was curious more about the EKA's actual lift ability, looking at the pics, it seems the ex-military units had only one telescopic lift ram whereas the civilian models all seemed to have two? My point being, if the boom was modified to give the reach - would the vehicle had the ability to safely lift 4-5tonne at 3M? Its quite obvious they are superb bits of kit for what they were intended, my proper day job is aerospace systems so I know a little about how the Military err over-spec things! The bonus for me with the Scammell / Foden solution is also the winches, quite a bit more capable than what most civilian wreckers seem to make do with, it has been known for us to have to get a coach winched out of a soggy field after sinking axle deep, the driver having been told by the party organiser or even the venue owner that coaches always park on there.... It might be that a 'normal' civilian wrecker would suit our needs better, but from what I've seen not all of them have sufficient reach and I've known recovery companies have to jack vehicles onto blocks/stands before they can get the lift under the axle so thats not a problem unique to the EKA (more like anything with a thick boom). The horizontal at 3' off the floor was something I'd not picked up on and wouldn't be much good for us - again though I'm assuming that can be changed like most things. I really do appreciate your thoughts and views on this, I can visualise the engineering and mechanics, but its no substitute for real 'done it before' knowledge. Don't worry though, we're not about to launch into a recovery business - this is all about us potentially bringing home our own vehicles in a slightly better way without having to always bring in outside help - some however will always be recovered by the big boys - I don't think we'd dare try to bring home our 14M Double Decker even if we had a vehicle capable! I'll do some more research in the meantime.. Jeff Hall Terrys Coach Hire - Coventry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffHall Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Rob That's pretty much the configuration I'd got in my head as being almost ideal, a Scammell with most of the good EKA bits, a modified 2 stage extending boom to give the reach and most probably wheel grids for ease of recovery - besides it saves bending the bus when it hasn't got a proper chassis or solid beam axle. I've seen a fair few pics of Scammells in the guise you describe so it must be possible and relatively viable - it might just be that overall cost of creating that setup is beyond that of a comparable civilian setup that wouldn't need the mods? Now, if someone had one already done and was looking to sell at the right price, life would be much simpler! Jeff Hall Terrys Coach Hire - Coventry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Sorry for delay . Both the Foden and Scammell can benefit from a longer boom. I have over the years fitted 5 to the scammells one to my own Foden and one to the Civillian version of the EKA fitted to a Modern Daf. The boom is one we manufacture at our works and will extend to 3M i can give a price to fit one or supply drawings. Which ever it is fitted to it can bring up a little problem in that the fold ram is no longer strong enough to lift the boom. But there is a simple way of curing this with no expence. I stated early that the geometry of the boom is wrong for low level lifting. This is easily rectified with two simple wedges welded in. On the foden though the boom then does not go low enough for coach work due to its design. So for your use the scammell would be best. As for power from the single hydraulic ram it would have no problems with the wieghts/distances your aiming at. When testing one EKA off a scammell fitted to a Volvo FL10 considrably longer than a scammel and fitted with a ballasted bumper with its rear legs down it had no problem raising the front wheels of the floor. All the EKAs ex Mod i have worked on seem to have there main relief valves set at 1200 to 1500 psi the civillian ones are set at 2500psi. I believe this is due to the Mod insistance of using as little flexible hydraulic piping as possible. Thus the MOD variation of the EKA has a solid steel pipe feeding a complicated system of cradles and O rings and on to the lifting ram. this system does start leaking if the pressure is taken up the cure is so simple and costs about a tenner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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