CCKW - Slow Cranking

[Vulture]

Fair point

Mine had a workshop body (it used to live on Houghton Hill) and the battery was in the body, if it wasnt going to start I used to use the 12V battery I had to run the lights to jump start it!!!

 

It used to start then

 

The secret I think is to make sure every thing ingnition wise is spot on and have a decent 6V battery

Any vehicle with 6V system sounds lazy, you only have to hear a Ford 7V trying to start

 

 

A cunning plan that, having the 12v as back up ! :cool2:

 

When did you sell your yours, and what do you have now ?

[Gordon_M]

I had a really good starting system for my 6v GMC stuff.

 

If it had been sitting for any length of time, I'd open the bonnet and squirt about 1 cubic inch of petrol from a squeezy bottle onto the centre of the air cleaner, where the butterfly nut is.

 

That would drain down and any of my GMC stuff would generally fire up first kick with about half choke, as the petrol in the bottle had fired it off far enough to get the fuel up and the carb full before it ran out.

 

My DUKW had the extra panel on the side of the dash with the knockout plug that was designed to accommodate the hand primer ( same one that was fitted to all Weasels ) That was a simple brass pump that sucked in from the fuel line inlet and squirted out through nozzles into each main brach of the inlet manifold.

 

If your battery, carb, fuel line, and electrics are good, terminals clean and tight, then a 6v system will generally fire up. The one notable exception is where it has been repeatedly jumped with 12v.

[Brooky]

A cunning plan that, having the 12v as back up ! :cool2:

 

When did you sell your yours, and what do you have now ?

 

Years ago!!!

Must have neen around 1985 or there abouts

Have had all sorts Bedfords, Leyalnds, Scammells now got Land Rovers

Will try to dig a picture out!!

 

The 12V option was a real last resort.................usually after the starting handle had been tried

[Vulture]

Years ago!!!

Must have neen around 1985 or there abouts

Have had all sorts Bedfords, Leyalnds, Scammells now got Land Rovers

Will try to dig a picture out!!

 

The 12V option was a real last resort.................usually after the starting handle had been tried

 

Pictures are good

 

Of the vehicles you have had to date, which have you liked best ?

[Vulture]

I had a really good starting system for my 6v GMC stuff.

 

If it had been sitting for any length of time, I'd open the bonnet and squirt about 1 cubic inch of petrol from a squeezy bottle onto the centre of the air cleaner, where the butterfly nut is.

 

That would drain down and any of my GMC stuff would generally fire up first kick with about half choke, as the petrol in the bottle had fired it off far enough to get the fuel up and the carb full before it ran out.

 

My DUKW had the extra panel on the side of the dash with the knockout plug that was designed to accommodate the hand primer ( same one that was fitted to all Weasels ) That was a simple brass pump that sucked in from the fuel line inlet and squirted out through nozzles into each main brach of the inlet manifold.

 

If your battery, carb, fuel line, and electrics are good, terminals clean and tight, then a 6v system will generally fire up. The one notable exception is where it has been repeatedly jumped with 12v.

 

Thanks for the hint re the petrol. Its always useful to hear what has worked for other people. Occasionally I've been giving mine a squirt of Easy Start, which also seems to do the job.

[N.O.S.]

...Occasionally I've been giving mine a squirt of Easy Start, which also seems to do the job.

 

Some might be appalled by that, but if used sensibly it is just fine. I think the correct use of starting fluid is more of an attitude issue

 

[Vulture]

Some might be appalled by that, but if used sensibly it is just fine. I think the correct use of starting fluid is more of an attitude issue

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]62424[/ATTACH]

 

I love the smell of ether in the morning, it, it smells like victory... or an engine being encouraged to start... :nut: :-D

[deadline]

You should not need to add fuel directly into the carb. If your accelerator pump is working pumping the foot pedal 2-3 times does the same thing.

 

If you take off the air cleaner and at the carb, FULLY open the throttle via the linkage you should see a very obvious squirt of gas (thats what the accelerator pump does).

[N.O.S.]

As John Wilson would say - "We're in - it's a big one!"

 

Edited May 31, 2012 by N.O.S.

[N.O.S.]

Vulture - has your fuel pump got a priming lever? I hate engines chewing over until the fuel lifts up and fills the carb (as might typically happen after standing a long time between runs).

[Vulture]

Vulture - has your fuel pump got a priming lever? I hate engines chewing over until the fuel lifts up and fills the carb (as might typically happen after standing a long time between runs).

 

N.O.S.

 

Yes it has, and I normally give it a couple of squirts to fill the in-line fuel filter I have. You may recall a few months back I left the lever up, and in that position it cuts the fuel off, then I was left wondering why it wouldn't start at all ! :n00b: :nut:

[N.O.S.]

I think Start ya B*&^%$d is certainly appropriate for diesel engines, in that - properly used - it will allow the engine to fire up much quicker thereby easing the burden of the starter motor, especially in cold weather, and do no damage in the process.

 

I don't use SYB on the old petrol engines - Deadline is quite right in that so long as the carb has fuel in it the accelerator pump will give you an adequate blast of combustibles into the engine. But the problem comes when the electrics are working but there's nothing to set fire to :red:

 

Gordon's trick is really neat in that as he says it gives a source of fuel for the engine to run long enough to pump fuel up.

 

SYB would get an engine running where the electrics are a bit dodgy so cannot spark well enough when cold but once running and warm give enough to keep it running.

 

I've had trouble with lift pump valves in repair kits in the past - wouldn't hold fuel up - so went from 6 valve to 2 valve pumps which pretty much got around that problem. But now under heavy load I've been experiencing trouble with fuel starvation. Certainly an electric pump would cure that, maybe the pump is not working quite 100% but I guess there was a reason for going from 2 valve to 6 valve pumps.

 

Anyway - back to slow cranking. The norm, it seems - anything faster is probably just excessive maintenance or a new starter :-D

[Tony B]

I've used the squirt of petrol direct into carb on vehicles that have sat around. It works but you can flood it very easily. I'd rather use that method than happy gas on a petrol engine. The other real fun way with a Disiel is of course the flaming rag over the air intake, who really needs eyebrows anyway? Years ago I had charge of a Series 1 Landy. No matter what was done if you left it overnight, you had to start on the handle. Half Choke throw the engine over away it went, then would start on the switch until left for about twelve hours. Numerous gagrages tried to cure it, none succeded. I think now the engine may have pinched a bit when cold. But hey, we had a system that worked. If you can turn the engine without the ignition, do that a couple of times, to bring fuel up then switch on. All the old tricks time has forgotten.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Tony B

[deadline]

The check valve in a AC type F fuel pump should hold a prime for a day or so easy. If you have one (or can get one) install a glass pulsator dome (that's what its really called). Start the engine and watch the fuel... it should perculate. IF you let it sit a day or so you can see if the fuel has leaked out. If the fuel does disappear, it can only go on the ground or into the crankcase, or be sucked back into the fuel tank.

 

When I was reading the TM, it did note that the fuel tank cap's pressure valves may not be working. Can you run with the cap unscrewed but still on the tank neck?

 

If it starts with ether or pouring gas into the carb then it sounds like a fuel issue. Testing the spark is easy, remove a spark plug wire and hold it about 5mm from the plug. Watch (and feel) the spark. Should be a nice blue/white and pop.

[N.O.S.]

....... Testing the spark is easy, remove a spark plug wire and hold it about 5mm from the plug. Watch (and feel) the spark. Should be a nice blue/white and pop.

 

Nonononono - we all know 6v sparks are yellow :-D:-D:-D Sorry, that should be yellow......

 

Good point about the filler cap breather - I'll have a look. That would certainly not help. But the real problem is that we don't use the vehicles on a daily basis. So the fuel in the carb evaporates, any slight issue with lift pump valve allows fuel back down the line or makes the engine oil a better consistency for starting :cool2:. Maybe the 'new age' fuel doesn't help either.

[deadline]

I guess since you are on the metric system it could be yellow. :-D I think 1 metric volt is .4190 US Standard volt. Unless the system is ISO9000 certified :-D:-D

 

Still, a working coil is still making many thousands of volts. A spark plug gap is no more than 2-3 mm so if the spark will jump 5-10 mm then its going across the spark plug.

 

Even if the vehicle sits long enough for the fuel in the carb to evaporate from the bowl (and that should take a while.. as in days) then you should be able to fill it within 10-20 revs of the engine via starter... the fuel from the pump to the filter should not go anywhere... all other things working properly.

 

You may want to do a fuel pressure and flow test on your pump. Just to see how much fuel is getting pushed out per pump.

 

After repairing my jeeps engine I did have to dial in the distributor to get an easy start. The best setting via the vacuum gauge was not the best setting for starting. I would have Jean crank the motor as I slowly turned the dist to find the sweet spot to get a quick start. Wear and tear on these old engines will make things like factory timing marks more like 'recommendations' than cast in stone settings.

[N.O.S.]

....Even if the vehicle sits long enough for the fuel in the carb to evaporate from the bowl (and that should take a while.. as in days) then you should be able to fill it within 10-20 revs of the engine via starter... the fuel from the pump to the filter should not go anywhere... all other things working properly.....

 

EVEN IF....?

 

Well I don't know about anyone else, but up until about 10 years ago I was lucky enough to be able to give the GMC a ride out 2 maybe 3 times a week when the weather was dry . The last 10 years or so however she may sit for months at a time patiently waiting :embarrassed:

 

So yes, I'd say it was more than a fair chance the fuel in the carb has evaporated. And if the battery isn't fully up (or even if it is) then it doesn't come as any surprise that by the time the fuel is up the spark is not the best of sparks it could be. :red:

 

Hence the priming lever on the pump. And the trickle charger (which I keep forgetting to put on for some reason). And the reason why some folk trickle a little gas in via the wing nut. Mind you, that electric pump is beginning to sound a .....:goodidea:

[deadline]

If you drive that infrequently why go to the hassle of finding a 6v fuel pump or rewiring for 12v? As part of your 'I haven't driven it it a while check tires, oil and brake fluid levels' give the fuel pump priming handle a few cranks?

 

Sounds like a lot of work and money to solve a problem that is already been solved (aka the primer handle).

[Vulture]

Hey N.O.S

 

You off to Duxford ?

 

Vulture

[Degsy]

It's not expensive to convert to 12v including an alternator, it can be done for less than £100 and is a fairly easy job.

Starting is no longer an issue and there is a huge safety improvement due to the vastly improved lighting.

[Tony B]

What about the six volt starter? Would that stand the kick from 12 volt, and the coil?

[N.O.S.]

Hey N.O.S

 

You off to Duxford ?

 

Vulture

 

17th June MV day? Now that's an idea

[Degsy]

What about the six volt starter? Would that stand the kick from 12 volt, and the coil?

 

Starter is ok, change the coil for a 12v unit.

[Tony B]

I'm starting to understand why 6 volt can be such a head banger. I got a brand new battery a big 6 volt lead acid from Lincon. Intial charge was fine , got Katy back no problems. Then somewhere along the line it looks like I knocked the light switch to blackout. Anyway total flat battery. So I brought the battery home and stuck it a Ring 6/12 volt chrger, the one I'd used for intial charging. Battery wouldn't come above 5.4 volts and took .75 amp. Hygometer check showed flat. I contacted Lincon after the battery had been on charge for about 2 days with no change. They were very helpful and we discussed a plan. I left the battery on charge for nother 3 to 4 days, still nothing, no voltage not taking the charge.

 

I fitted the battery to Katy yesterday, flat as a pancake. Some verbal enginnering later, I tow started Katy and left her running. The dynamo put out 7.5 volts and the amps nearly melted my test leads reading about 49 amps! The battery charged up! I left the battery on the vehicle overnight to check if there was an earth leack. She started sraight off this morning! the plan now is to leave the battery on the vehicle for a few days (Some of us have to keep the wheels of commerce turning) and see what happens.

[deadline]

Once a battery is drained 'dead' (realistically less than 4 volts) its shot on a 6V battery. Technically the battery is charged at 6.3V and fully depleted (0% charge) at 6.0 V. You read that right. Your battery lives in a .3V range.

 

Every battery manufacturer will tell you the same thing... once below the discharge voltage bad things happen.

 

In the US a battery warranty is prorated for prorated return. I'd just take it back, let them test it, determine its dead and get another.

 

6V systems are not hard to fix, and they work just fine. They need a little more maintenance... but the 24V system on my M35A2 (2 12V batteries in series) still has ground issues. But once the ground is cleaned it all works as advertised.