Muskrat Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Hello HMVF - On my Series 3, 109' FFR (49GF85) RHD, while breaking down the axle assembly to replace the seals and give it an overall check ( trying to source oil leaking into brake drums. Swivel ball seal leaks - ball is pitted a bit), when I got to the point where I was removing the lower steering arm and pin assembly ( passenger side ) from the swivel pin/ball housing, two of the bolts ( double-threaded, no head ) stayed put (nuts came off ), and the other two came out ( nuts seized just enough to the bolt? ). I would like to remove the housing completely while I am already dismantling the axle down to the axle flange oil seal - I would like to clean it up ( remove old Waxold and grime ), but am afraid to go any further in regards to the bolts without asking for advice on such matters. Is there a special tool that will help me remove these bolts? Is there a trick to it? I would prefer not to have to bend threads forcing them out if I don't have to... Also - as there is light rust/pitting on the swivel ball ( cause of leaking into the drums?; has anyone ever heard of the J.B. Weld method of repairing them? I have read that it has been done with good results if done proper - I saw it on The Land Rover FAQ, and am curious to see if any members out there have given it a try before? Thank you in advance for any help, advice, suggestions, or input - Muskrat - Prescott, Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) I invested in a set of Halford Proffesional Stud removers, four in the set 6, 8 , 10 , 12 , got them on offer at about £30. Absolute Godsend! JB Weld , do you mean the paste? I use plasteel, it was the only stuff I found would repair a one inch square hole in the sump of a Disiel engine. But it can be cheap enough to get replacment second hand in good condition. Edited May 1, 2012 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 I will look into tool-set, or try to borrow one for the day. Still would like to know if there is a 'cheaper/savvy' solution though (in case of any type of field repair where a seized stud/bolt is unfashionably involved). I realize that having a 'kit' like you mentioned would be an asset to any garage - As for me, all repair when need arises; if I have to implement it, is what I can carry as I try to streamline - out of the toolbox in the back of the rover when I excursion. As far as the J.B. Weld, it's a two-part epoxy paste that 'hardens like steel' and can be used for high temperature situations as well -- I had a leaking heater/water control valve. As a temporary fix until it could be replaced, I 'cracked' the unit apart (pried the clamps away from their holds), dissected it (took out the warn seal component, and washer with a hole through the center of it), and used just the bottom half as a bypass (cleaned it up real well, then J.B. Weld'ed' the flat washer back to the top until it 'set', then covered the hole with a J.B. Weld'ed' penny). After I let it cure for 24 hours, I refitted it and went down the road - worked great as a 'fix'. I have found that having it in my toolbox is also a godsend. Looking forward to any other suggestions/comments. Thank you HMVF - Muskrat - Prescott, Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I've found Plasteel far superior, sets faster and if nesscary under water, great for emergrncy cooling system repairs. Decent Stud removers are a must. They can also be used on rounded nuts and bolt heads at a pinch. But get a decent set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Good advice Tony B., I will look into both - I guess a man would be better off with a set of tools that you know; sooner or later, will come in handy when you need them the most - like a good dog... Muskrat - Prescott, Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Your welcome. People on here have tried most things at some time, and know which works. And which don't! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Be aware the lower steering arm (or upper steering arm on such as a earlier S2A) , the double threaded boilts (studs) - each arm is secured with two studs having slight clearance to the holes , the other two are a slight interference/transition fit to positively locate & secure. So each housing needs 2 qty. 531043 (IIRC the fully fitted studs) & 2 qty. 531494 (IIRC with clearance). Often a copper mallet job to tap the leverage off the dowels. The small set-bolts are often the bigger problem , they can easy strip the threads in the cast housings if you try to drag them through with rust on the threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 btw - leave the studs in the swivel housing , only extract if threads badly damaged - they are set with thread-lock to prevent oil loss on your drive LoL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Well - I tried to gingerly remove one, and managed to de-thread it only. Now I am going to have to work it out (heat it up, vise-grip, bolt/stud remover, etc). I will leave the other one in place and go from there. I created the problem; and now I will have to deal with the repercussions as only a fool knows how to do. Muskrat - Prescott, Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nudge Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Its been quite a while since i've had anything to do with series landies, so can't (at the moment) picture the steering arms. With regard to the swivel balls,whatever you use on them,just ensure that its all smooth,or you'll just ruin the seals again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nudge Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Well - I tried to gingerly remove one, and managed to de-thread it only. Now I am going to have to work it out (heat it up, vise-grip, bolt/stud remover, etc). I will leave the other one in place and go from there. I created the problem; and now I will have to deal with the repercussions as only a fool knows how to do. Muskrat - Prescott, Arizona. One way of doing it,weld a nut onto the end of the stud, the heat produced should help matters,and you have a decent purchase for your spanner. As has been said, leave them in, you don't need to replace them unless the thread is damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nudge Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Thanks for the pic Ruxy ... memory now jogged ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 From what I read about the J.B. Weld method; after is is cleaned well past rust in pits - the article said to 'warm up' the entire thing in the oven a bit (while the wife is away). Apply the compound with spatula or the like as smooth as you can get it. Then warm it up again to help cure it quick (where I live; I can probably get away with letting it heat up in the sun - I have to keep my tools in the shade). Then, carefully file down any 'high' points - then wet sand with ultra-fine emory cloth it until it is smooth. The person that wrote the article said that he, and a few people he has known, have done it and it worked for them and held up years later. -- Article was found under 'The Land Rover FAQ'; If I recall 'swivel ball repair' or something to the like -- My RHD rover (I am third private owner - first owner had it only a month or so, worked at a dealer in Las Vegas, and sold it because wife and kids didn't fit in it well) is former military - 49GF85 91126241C FFR (made it all the way into the Bosnia conflict, and then was 'de-mobilized' with two other Series 3's that it was with from what I gather). There were still the brackets for the 'gaiter' kit still on it in front of the swivel-ball seal retainer - previous owners did not do this, otherwise they probably would have been removed. This tells me that the balls are probably original if I was to guess. Most of the pitting was only visible once I removed the entire piece to where I could examine it under the seal. So; if one is in need of help, so is the other in all probability. The one is not that bad, so I can should get away with this method - Buying two new, or used in good condition is not a good option for me right now. I will be attempting this here in the next day or so, while I await my new seals. What the finished 'job' looks like and how the 'fix' will perform will be two separate issues. If the article is right and it works; like the author said it does, I will be sure to find out be it good or bad - I hope for the best. Of course I will post results. Muskrat - Prescott, Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Now: As far as the now stripped/seized stud (the other one will now smartly stay where it is), I will first try to heat it up, then attempt to carefully urge it out. If that doesn't work, I will have to try the weld method. I should have just left well enough alone - what a learning curve. I truly appreciate this forum and all the sound advice, comments and input from its' members. Thank you all. As I am the only person I know that owns a series 'Landy' around my town, let alone in the territory; good advice (and mechanics that know about one) are as hard to come by as a polydactyl-toed calico cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 The old method we used to use when swivel seals started to leak was to fill them with 140 grade oil, to get the stuff to run it was necessary to put a bottle of the oil in a pan of boiling water. These days you can get one shot sachets of swivel oil from your nearest Land Rover dealer and we have used these with some success. Again it is necessary to warm the sachet up to liquefy the contents but you may not need to do this in your climate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 New studs are not that expensive and quite easy to get in UK. The other thing they are small enough to drop in regular mail. So are a couple of sachets of one shot grease.The old joke about Land Rover hubs is when do they need refilling? When they stop dripping. The gaiters end up gone on most of them anyway. Try Craddock's http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Great thread... As I am in Arizona; in the high country in the pines (true mile-high), I have had to adapt my machine to a different type of altitude - I had a mechanic re-jet the Weber carb from sea level - 32/36 DGV (on it when I bought it), by a man that knows 'Webers' but nothing about a Rover (not his fault). There is a sweet spot (seasonally and with alternating jets) where it runs pure (Webers are feisty!) - high grade unleaded gas with a lead additive (she's an old school engine); it seems that only I can ignorantly figure 'Corinna' out where I live; only because I am the person that drives her at length. With that being said; I imagine that altitude change has a lot to do with what leaks and what doesn't. It seems that when it started getting hotter out (75 degrees +, very low humidity, getting hotter), my seals weeped worse. The breather/tube is a clear shot into the frame; which I relieved/cleared out, and the axle relaxed and the other side of my project cried as well (swivel-ball seal), and showed it's colors when it seeped from the bottom side - for the time being - it will be due for a service next... As far as the one-shot grease/oil; I have heard mixed reviews on its usage (purely on experience and or implementation by those that have used it): will it work well in desert conditions one season and in the high-hills months later, yet cover the bases? Will it deter leakage (J.B Weld job over swivel-balls). I have no educated idea (looking for advice) - I read that a man complained when he went to clean/drain a housing out (I bet it was cold out) that was filled with it; and when he went to change the seals, he was pleasantly disappointed by the forthcoming messy project when the grease stuck against the housing like low-shelf honey (exaggeration?) ... Where I live it can more so in Winter occasionally freeze, and then it can heat up sporadically - what should I use? (the Green-book tells me in a sense, but how vague is it really?) Open to suggestions. As far as the bottom studs; with blind foresight, I purchased eight for good measure from Rovers North in Vermont - From what I learned previously; I will leave the rest of them in and not mess with a 'future ramshackle' (they look dapper where they sit)... So I guess I will have a few 'on hand' for a leaky dike... On the side - were the 'gaitors' a implemented MOD 'add-on' (turned civilian) per involvement when need arose for extra protection? And if so, how well did they actually work? -- With all this accumulated knowledge hanging out there in the ether - I will find answers... TY. - Muskrat - Prescott, Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Chamois leather gaiters were also listed in the Civvy Optional Parts Book. The MOD had them fitted - even on CL's (commercial logistics / civilian spec.) - they probably had run some trials. Probably better with, depending on environment , does not take long to unlace & clean out any debris & wipe some thick tacky oil over the chrome balls, if needing cleaning often - then better without. The kit supplied Jubilee clip - use a stainless steel one - better for removal when cleaning. IMHO stick to oil lubrication, Series 3 (earlier had top compression spring/cone & most now later upgraded , you would have to be a rivet-counter - daft as they are not seen) have the Railco material top bush as it is better than the sprung cone. However they do need occasional soaking with oil , arguably the coiler (Defender etc.) lubricants don't do this well. IIRC coilers have a top bearing. The periodic oiling is the requirement for a periodic engagement of free wheeling hubs - so stub shaft is rotating & joint splashes the oil around & up to the Railco material. Edited May 2, 2012 by ruxy speling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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