Jack Innes Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hello, I am considering buying a CVRT Spartan . What should I be looking for when inspecting such a vehicle. I am more familiar with older, simpler machinery. Thank you for any advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I can't give any advice as I've never owned one but I see that the Xmod have one for sale if it helps: http://www.thexmod.com/item_detail.asp?id=434 Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Jack, the one that Andy pointed you to is an ex Belgian unit. Have a look closely at the covers on the front deck, you can see peeking out from the side is a small channel which is where the smoke dischargers were mounted. Also it has had the wading screen removed. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hi jack Good choice! Outside of the more expensive turreted cvrt's like sabre and scorpion, the spartan is probably the most popular collectors variant, i think the main reason being that you can get a few people in the back and it is therefore more fun. From a general perspective cvrts tend to command a higher price than, say fv432's. This is because they are generally seen as a little easier to work on, and are smaller and hence easier to store and transport. With care they can also be driven quite readily in the public road, and are certainly more practical in this respect than 432's and the like. Also they are more easily road registered since they are underwidth, which most tracked vehicles arent. You say you are more familiar with older simpler machines but remember that most of the cvrts in private hands are unmodified from their early configuration ie jaguar j60 petrol engines. This means you are essentially dealing with 60s/ early 70s technology so not actually that complex (unless you have to open a gearbox!). The engines and gearboxes are generally seen as a weak point. As a private owner though, provided you get one that runs well in the first place, and maintain it properly, it would take some doing to break it. Engines are basically a differently tuned version of the one that Jaguar used in their cars, e type and so on. Due to the armys dieselisation programme, there is a ready supply of take out petrol engines available, and for a take out you should be able to get a spare quite easily for £250-500. Recons are also available for £1000ish. Gearboxes used to be very rare but even these are a little more available now, for a take out you should expect to pay £1500-2000. As stated for both the above though if you get one that works well, and dint abuse it you should have few probkems. The best way to check both of the above is to drive the vehicle! Due to the hideously complex design of the gearboxes they emit all kinds of weird clonks, whines and noise when running. The key thing is to be able to select fwd and reverse, and try to get rhough all seven gears if possible. Also check the oil levels and condition. If nothing else it gives a clue as to the level of maintenance the vehicle has been subject to. Other stuff to look for is the condition of roadwheels and tracks. Is all the rubber there on the wheels, are they heavily cracked ( but remember with the best will in the world they will pick up the odd stone). The rubber track pads are not replaceable so should be checked to see how worn they are. Also do a check for any bent track pins. Again as a private owner if these are in good nick when purchased you are unlikely to need to replace any time soon. The rubber on the wheels can 'go off' over time causing them to break up but these are fairky readily available. For this reason i have been told you should not buy too many spare wheels as they will break up when fitted if stored too long. There are four suspension dampers fitted to cvrts, on at the back and one at the front on each side. You will have one of two designs either Armstrongs, which are a smallish square unit (circa 6 inches square), or messiers, which are much larger and heavier and have a much more effective damping action off road. These are about 12 inches and feature a horizontal tube. Until very recently messiers were very rare but again these are now starting to be released in bigger numbers so prices may go down soon. For on road use there is little difference between their performance. If you can lift the decking you should also check the condition of the brak pads and brake bands. You are looking for wear on the handbrake bands (they are a pig to replace!), and see if the brakes are clean or covered in oil. There are 2 sets of pads on each side of the gearbox, one set for steering, one for braking, and they can delaminate if stood. On a spartan you should also check to see if the cupola traverses freely and the rear roof hatches open, neither problem is expensive to fix but can be a pain..! The cvrt is a great fun vehicle to drive although the spartan can be a little more restrictive on visibility, esp if you are short and have the smoke dischargers fitted. The gearchange is a little more tricky than most tracked vehicles as the higher the gear the wider the turning circle. This means if you go into a corner in too high a gear there is a distinct possibility of going straight on - ask me i know! Also there is a distinct step in the ratios between 4th and 3rd and if you go down the box too quickly you will stand the vehicle on its nose and probably deprive your commander and passengers of their teeth. Both these traits are easily overcome with a little practice though. I hope this helps please feel free to pm me if you would like more info.. Timbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Innes Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Great information so far - thank you all. Is there anything on line that would show the internals of these machines? Thank you, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northrecce Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 One thing timbo had mist out of his excellent and spot on post was if your a stoutly fellow like me then the drivers compartment is a lot user friendly with the hull being more slanted than say the scimitar/sabre variant. And you can get in to that position with the seat up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The biggest problem I can think of with Spartans is the fuel tank. They hold something like 495 litres, and unless kept full condensation will be an issue. They are also filled through a hole in the roof and sand and dirt can easily be washed down inside. Despite a lot of cleaning, we could never get ours fully clean and didn't have the cash to fill it up, so we run from a jerry can. Eventually we plan to lift the tank out and fit a smaller plastic tank inside it, some owners ditch it completely to make more space inside. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Garner Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Timbo has pretty much covered everything and Chris has a valid point too. It is worth checking the condition of the roadwheels/sprockets etc and indeed the wear on the track pads. As the pads cannot be replaced separately like a 432 you have to replace the whole track, so this can be fairly costly too, although replacement track is still available. Not particularly related to the Spartan but don't rush at the first vehicle you find, the right one will turn up. You will find yourself here all too often though :-D ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 good photo gun looks like it needs a cover! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 There aren't too many about though these days, I think most have been cut up. There's pretty much nothing that you can't get for a Spartan, so even an incomplete vehicle or one with poor tracks etc might be worth buying at the right price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick garner Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 hi jack, we're up in mid beds, right on the A1, if you wanted to come over, I would be delighted to go over our spartan with you and give you a drive on the farmland near our unit. best regard mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Innes Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Mick, Thank you for the kind offer. Unfortunately I am several thousand miles from you. I am just outside Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's why there's a "location" field in your profile page ... :-) Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Innes Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Tahnk you Andy, I found that now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDonovan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hi... If you want to see what a CVRT looks like in pieces check out my Striker Restoration http://www.fullchat.co.uk follow the links at the bottom of page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Innes Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Thank you, great pictures & definitely great work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hi... If you want to see what a CVRT looks like in pieces check out my Striker Restoration http://www.fullchat.co.uk follow the links at the bottom of page Hi Paul I often go into pics for a) reference b) inspiration ! Please make sure you dont delete them..! Are you going to make it to the AFVS show this year ? Cheers Timbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDonovan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hi Paul I often go into pics for a) reference b) inspiration ! Please make sure you dont delete them..! Are you going to make it to the AFVS show this year ? Cheers Timbo Timbo... I really hope so ! I Have found a local guy, military enthusiast, who has a Foden 8x4 flatbed truck (16t) who I think will be keen to visit a few shows with my Striker on-board... if i just cover the fuel cost. Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick garner Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 this is my problem now- the transport thing, we had a local guy who had made a fortune but just liked to get out of the house and would transport our spartan for pocket money. sadly he has lost his hgv licience because of deteriating health so were stuffed to get to any shows that bit further away. I cap myself at shows maximum 40 mile round trip, to run a CVRT on the road probably costs all in £4 per road mile in fuel, tracks. oils, maintanence etc. wish i could find an enthusiast in the bedfordshire area who could help out on the transport side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 this is my problem now- the transport thing, we had a local guy who had made a fortune but just liked to get out of the house and would transport our spartan for pocket money. sadly he has lost his hgv licience because of deteriating health so were stuffed to get to any shows that bit further away. I cap myself at shows maximum 40 mile round trip, to run a CVRT on the road probably costs all in £4 per road mile in fuel, tracks. oils, maintanence etc. wish i could find an enthusiast in the bedfordshire area who could help out on the transport side Aye theres the rub mick, but look on the bright side at least it is a cvrt not a chieftain. Could you not get hgv test and ask to borrow the lorry off him? You could offer to take him as passenger if he wants to get out and about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat777 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Aye theres the rub mick, but look on the bright side at least it is a cvrt not a chieftain. Could you not get hgv test and ask to borrow the lorry off him? You could offer to take him as passenger if he wants to get out and about! I had a brief look at the current HGV test rules and theory test when I was dong my car theory 2 years ago... it is frightening! Taking an HGV test and borrowing the truck sounds simple enough but I imagine these days it is a lot of time and money involved. Something however has just occurred to me - would moving a Spartan around infringne the restrictions on driving a pre 1960 HGV on a car licence? Would be a good excuse to get another piece of tasty machinery! If all else fails and you are really stuck for important transport Mick, as I was telling Lew earlier there is a company called Acorn who are based out near Huntingdon (so not a million miles away) who do a lot of business moving traction engines around the show circuit in that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I had a brief look at the current HGV test rules and theory test when I was dong my car theory 2 years ago... it is frightening!Taking an HGV test and borrowing the truck sounds simple enough but I imagine these days it is a lot of time and money involved. Something however has just occurred to me - would moving a Spartan around infringne the restrictions on driving a pre 1960 HGV on a car licence? Would be a good excuse to get another piece of tasty machinery! If all else fails and you are really stuck for important transport Mick, as I was telling Lew earlier there is a company called Acorn who are based out near Huntingdon (so not a million miles away) who do a lot of business moving traction engines around the show circuit in that area. Mat If you were using a pre 1960 HGV it might be quicker to drive the spartan.. Bit like the thread on here a while back about somebody buying an Explorer to tow a Matador...or was it a Matador to tow an Explorer..?! Cheers Timbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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