1000sunlight Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I have an early Dodge WC 51 with a Rootes Ltd Manchester rebuild plate, dated 9/55. Extraordinarily the nearest WC 51 is also has a Rootes plate dated 10/55. The only other one I can find on the net is on a jeep 6/55. Please see photos. Does anyone have any information as to the history behind this? were they destined for the British Army or exported to Europe? Where did the Dodges (and Jeep) come from? Many thanks Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Al - just a thought. The USAF were using large quantities of WW2 equipment in UK after the war and I have evidence that WW2 USAAF refuelling tankers were rebuilt in 1956 at Preston. Perhaps the USAF were using companies to recondition these vehicles? This might also explain the origin of these vehicles and their point of entry into preservation too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 In the late 1980's, a local dealer bought some jeeps from the surplus auctions in Norway, and some of them had Rootes, Manchester rebuild plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRIKE AND RETURN 460 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 My jeep is ex Norwegian and is a Rootes 1955 rebuild and my Ben Hur is a Rootes rebuild (London ) I have seen quite a few Jeeps Dodges and GMC all Norwegian Rootes re builds. Would be nice to find out more on the Rootes re build history. Regards Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000sunlight Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 My jeep is ex Norwegian and is a Rootes 1955 rebuild and my Ben Hur is a Rootes rebuild (London ) I have seen quite a few Jeeps Dodges and GMC all Norwegian Rootes re builds. Would be nice to find out more on the Rootes re build history.Regards Ken Ken What date is the plate and the job number? Rootes=Chrysler=Dodge, so were they effectively sent to the British Dodge manufacturing plant for a refit?? Interesting stuff. Hopefully someone will know the answers... Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I believe that contract number on the Rootes plates relates to European Command, United States Army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRIKE AND RETURN 460 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hi Al, Mine is Contract DA 91 564 EU96 Date is 6.55 rebuilt then shipped to Norway. Ben Hur ended up in Holland (Rootes London ) Friends GMC was Rootes London 1955 shipped to Norway. Regards Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000sunlight Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hi Al,Mine is Contract DA 91 564 EU96 Date is 6.55 rebuilt then shipped to Norway. Ben Hur ended up in Holland (Rootes London ) Friends GMC was Rootes London 1955 shipped to Norway. Regards Ken Thanks Ken, I wonder if there are any other Contracts- there seems to be just one. All the Dodges were in one place at the same time it looks. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) I did a fair bit of hunting about on this subject some while back and came up nadar! I did hear a story that following the election of a Labour (or in US eyes Communist !) goverment post war the US were unwilling to supply parts. The British Army did use Dodges during the Korean War and in India, which passed to Indian forces on Independence and in Malaya. Edited October 11, 2011 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melchy Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 My trailer has a Rootes rebuild plate, I managed to find this website with details of the Rootes archives. http://tardis.dl.ac.uk/ARCC/ Couldn't find anything on trailers but there was a section on MV rebuilds somewhere in there. Hope it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 KenWhat date is the plate and the job number? Rootes=Chrysler=Dodge, so were they effectively sent to the British Dodge manufacturing plant for a refit?? Interesting stuff. Hopefully someone will know the answers... Al Chrysler and Dodge were not linked or associated to Rootes until the mid-1960's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000sunlight Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Chrysler and Dodge were not linked or associated to Rootes until the mid-1960's. Yes I am confused- here is another plate from the WC51 - it states 'Dodge Trucks Manufactured by Chrysler Corporation'. Its fixed to the front of the left stowage facing the spare wheel. Whats yer answer to that then???! Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Richard never said Chrysler and Dodge weren't linked, he said they weren't linked to Rootes until the 1960's which is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000sunlight Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Richard never said Chrysler and Dodge weren't linked, he said they weren't linked to Rootes until the 1960's which is correct. Degsy - Funny old thing the English language!!! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Degsy - Funny old thing the English language!!! Thanks Sorry mate, thought it was clear :embarrassed:. Have done a bit of checking and the contract number on the plate was one from European Command, US Army, so looks like they were rebuilt by Rootes, for the Americans for Mutual Aid to Norway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000sunlight Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Sorry mate, thought it was clear :embarrassed:. Have done a bit of checking and the contract number on the plate was one from European Command, US Army, so looks like they were rebuilt by Rootes, for the Americans for Mutual Aid to Norway. Thats what I think its boiling down to...the Dodges seem to be in similar good condition too, so the rebuild was probably a full one and the trucks then put into store in Norway- mine has done very little mileage since- in 1995 it was 3000 miles. The other local Rootes Dodge has a later left rear side with larger fuel filler, pressed hooks etc so maybe they sustained damage in WW2. I wonder what the criteria was for bringing them back, rebuilding and sending to Norway. I will look into the Rootes archive suggested by Melchy. Does anyone know where and when they were sold by Norway?? What level of rebuild would be likely? Both mine and the local one have the dark blue paint left in places. Whats that all about?? More questions - sorry!! Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Does anyone know where and when they were sold by Norway?? Al, I can remember a lot of jeeps being sold off from Norway in 1987, there would no doubt have been GMC and Dodges released as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Warne Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 When I got my 1945 Willys MB from Norway, it had a Rootes 1953 rebuild plate. My current 1944 Dodge WC51 has one too, also ex-Norway. I recall when I enquired about the Rootes rebuilds on the G503 some years back, the answer was that Rootes were contracted to refurbish surplus vehicles that were to be supplied under MAP (Marshall Assistance program). I know Norway was a large recipient of vehicles, and possibly some/all of the following: Denmark, Greece, France. On the blue paint found on ex-Norway jeeps and/or Dodges, I was assured by the guys at Jeepfabrikken (Frank Berg & Co) that the Norwegian Air Force didn't paint their vehicles blue, but I have found evidence of jeeps & Dodges being used in Europe post-war by the USAAF/USAF. I have a picture, somewhere, of a Dodge WC51 in blue with yellow hood number that had been restored to match a late 1940's picture of a similar Dodge in USAF service in Germany. I have no evidence to support, but this could be one explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000sunlight Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 When I got my 1945 Willys MB from Norway, it had a Rootes 1953 rebuild plate. My current 1944 Dodge WC51 has one too, also ex-Norway.I recall when I enquired about the Rootes rebuilds on the G503 some years back, the answer was that Rootes were contracted to refurbish surplus vehicles that were to be supplied under MAP (Marshall Assistance program). I know Norway was a large recipient of vehicles, and possibly some/all of the following: Denmark, Greece, France. On the blue paint found on ex-Norway jeeps and/or Dodges, I was assured by the guys at Jeepfabrikken (Frank Berg & Co) that the Norwegian Air Force didn't paint their vehicles blue, but I have found evidence of jeeps & Dodges being used in Europe post-war by the USAAF/USAF. I have a picture, somewhere, of a Dodge WC51 in blue with yellow hood number that had been restored to match a late 1940's picture of a similar Dodge in USAF service in Germany. I have no evidence to support, but this could be one explanation. Very interesting. Is the plate 1953 or 5?. Could you put a photo up? I wonder if anyone has the definitive list of where vehicles went- I am certainly aware of ww2 jeeps being 'released from the Greek reserve' in the early 90's. As regards the blue- it doesnt appear to be over green, if it is its well done! It seems to be a feature of a number of Dodges as well as various used parts for sale- its as if it was the original colour on a lot of Dodges?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Warne Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I'll see if I can locate a picture of my jeep plate (now sold), but I won't be over to get a pic of the Dodge one for a week or so. I agree on the blue paint - it has been very well done, and thoroughly too - almost as if the Dodge was stipped down and then painted. Saying that, I was lucky with my Dodge (been lucky with my jeep, half-track and now the dodge) that when I went looking for the original hood number, using the paint stripper approach, I found it. After working through the Norwegian paint, there was a thin layer of blue before I reached the original hood number, then immediately underneath was OD, Red oxide and then metal. From that, I concluded the blue was applied at a later date. My Dodge WC51 is approx August 1944, but who knows when it was painted blue. I would say sometime between the end of ww2 and when it went to Norway in the 1950's, presumably after it had been through a Rootes rebuild. That could be quite a 'window' for it to have seen postwar use in Europe, and I'd guess with alot of manpower around, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think quite a bit of work effort went into any repainting that was done = thorough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000sunlight Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 I think you are right on the paint- its was a very thorough professional job and got into every corner so that means it was to a specification and supervised. On thebasis the Rootes work was a rebuild/overhaul (we don't know to what extent- but enough to put a plate on!) thet must have been painted then. I think your finding the blue over green etc is conclusive that it was post war, not a bare metal job but top spec. That also accounts as one reason for why some (Norway etc) Dodges are so rust free- they have the extra paint protection. The blue paint is behind the Rootes plate and so on the basis they were unlikely to have been painted blue between 1945 and 1955 it must have been doneby Rootes. That's a theory- but does anyone have a Norwegian etc Dodge or one with a Rootes plate that is NOT blue??? - that would test it. Apart from questions why blue? ( I have a mate who says that no Allied nations weren't allowed any camouflage colours after the war), there's the question what level of rebuild, and also where did they come from ie as distinct from those that ended up in France as fire tenders etc - or were they also Rootes but painted red and used more??? We need a Rootes worker!!!! Or a historian. It wasn't that long ago so someone will know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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