question Dodge fuel problem

[gas 44]

I THINK !!!!!!!

Good evening gentlemen,I think or at least a couple of people have pointed towards me thinking that I may have a fuel "vapour lock" problem. Even the kind gent who stopped and said "vapour lock good luck" then sped off as I had my head firmly under the bonnet.

 

So its a "44" WC51 all had been ok until last week on route to a show I filled up at ASDA :cry::cry::cry:

Symptoms are, starts ok when cold,but after about 7/8 miles starts missing and then dies. Wait about half an hour, pump fuel with manual pump and she starts until hot again.

 

We have another show this weekend so any temporary quick fix would really be appreciated,it was suggested last weekend that parafin should be added to the fuel...which some time ago was suggested by one of the major fuel companies for older vehicles....apparantly (not sure on that one)

 

Thanks in advance fellas.

 

Gary

[Tony B]

Have you got the heat gaurd over the fuel pump?

[gas 44]

Yes heat guard there and in pretty good nick.

Edited September 29, 2011 by gas 44
spelling AGAIN !!!!!

[Tony B]

What position is the manifold heater vane in? Its on the exhaust manifold a heart shape with a pointer. Mine has always been down with no problem.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Tony B

[gas 44]

Hi Tony thanks thus far for suggestions.

Yes pointer is down,I did notice earlier that it took me sometime to pump the fuel through. Disconnected fuel line at carb and had to pump for about 4 mins to get fuel out. There seems to be a "clicking" from the pump when operated buy hand,compared this with a recon pump I have just found and it (the recon unit) seems stiffer and no clicking. Could I perhaps have a pump issue,although symptoms don't point that way.

Gary

[Tony B]

Sounds more likley to be the pump! If you know the new one is good, there easy enough to change. The steel fuel pipe might not like it though. I have Cupro nickel pipe on mine, the old one rusted through.

[kpu121265]

I had a similar problem on the WC62 a couple of years ago, and after much head scratching, it turned out to be the fuel pump diaphragm.....

Ken

[P Marriott]

Have you checked the fuel pump diaphragm ?? Maybe you still have the original one rather than one that is compatible with modern fuels.

 

Also try putting decent petrol, i.e Shell, in rather than supermarket rubbish. I ran my Dodge WC-51 the 90+ miles to W&P on Shell no problems. Filled up with Co-op fuel for the return trip, got almost home and stuck in town traffic and the engine started to cough and splutter badly. I managed to get home just as the engine died on the drive and would not re-start. Left it to cool down for a couple of hours and started fine.

 

I then went straight out and filled up with Shell, no problems since!!

[Willyslancs]

we had this prob about 25 years ago on our wc51 , we ran the pipes to the carb as far away from the engine as poss ,from what i can remember , seemed to cure our prob.

[gas 44]

Have you checked the fuel pump diaphragm ?? Maybe you still have the original one rather than one that is compatible with modern fuels.

 

Also try putting decent petrol, i.e Shell, in rather than supermarket rubbish. I ran my Dodge WC-51 the 90+ miles to W&P on Shell no problems. Filled up with Co-op fuel for the return trip, got almost home and stuck in town traffic and the engine started to cough and splutter badly. I managed to get home just as the engine died on the drive and would not re-start. Left it to cool down for a couple of hours and started fine.

 

I then went straight out and filled up with Shell, no problems since!!

 

That sounds an identical fault as we have.

Before the "asda" fill up NO problems at all,so I'm a little loathed to go changing things for the sake of it. I can see the pump may be at fault,BUT NO trouble starting when cold and runs ok until it gets hot. I'm not a expert but would a fuel pump behave like that.

[terryo]

we have had the same symptoms with our wc56 , we changed the flexable fuel hoses in the engine bay and its never happened again , we found the fault by running a hose directly from the inlet on the fuel pump into the jerry can on the running board , if you try that and it still plays up you can rule out eveything but the pump , and you could put quality fuel in the can aswell

[Tony B]

If the fuel system is in good condition a Dodge is able to run on any thing better than Parrafin! :-D Mine ran quite happily on French fuel.

[Gordon_M]

Fuel system overhaul time.

 

Things you need to do include;

 

Get hold of a spare big dash fuel filter setup, and strip / clean it to swap on - notice I don't say clean the one that is on there, as some part will ALWAYS break if you try that. Best to have a good one to swap on, and then you can bench-recondition the original and put it back on the shelf for later.

 

Buy two new sets of fuel hoses, fit one set, and store the other set on the vehicle. The original ' armored ' hoses tend to fail internally and block or strangle the fuel flow - can lead to the situation you describe. The other failure mode is for the hoses up near the dash filter, the high point in the fuel system, to go porous and draw air, which allows the fuel to drain back down into the tank. Worth noting if you always have to hand-prime even after an overnight stop.

 

Buy a spare fuel pump, stow on vehicle.

 

Clean tank and lines.

 

When you have done that lot once you should never have to do it again, except for draining and checking the dash filter per the book.

[T corbin]

When we got our DODGE WC57 back from HOLAND last year we had the same problem. We put on a new pump changed filter stil would run about 3miles then stop then start after 5 minits Taking the fuel flexiball pipes of we found some very small parts of spring that had rusted apart this spring is to stop the hose from clapsing on the suction side of the pump .3 new pipes no more problems T CORBIN

[gas 44]

Thanks everyone so far. Just an update....its not the fuel pump or dash mounted filter,as the pump has been changed and strainer removed and cleaned. Problem still there......looks like its the GMC tomorrow and not the Dodge :cry::cry:.

[Tony B]

Odd thought, what is the coil doing? May be breacking down when hot, or dear old condenser.

[GoranWC51]

Good thinking,

 

Tony! That might be the problem, or a part thereof.

 

I had big problems with vapor lock on my WC51 for years, until I finally bought a new copper fuel line (I know, some say you shouldn't use copper, but it worked for me) a bit longer then necessary, and re routed it in an arc, as far away as possible from the heat source, the exhaust. Haven't had any problems since, even in the midst of summer, in stop and go traffic jams.

 

Goran N

[Tony B]

Copper worked for me as well Goran! That and a good ignition system! :cool2: The old Bedford OY's are notourious for gassing, copper line does help with the problems. The temprature over the last few days round here has been in the high 20's! The turbos were giving out **all power, trying to get a bus uphill has been murder.

[gas 44]

Good afternoon gents and thanks to all who have come up with suggestions so far. I bit of an update really,as i said I did not want to go changing parts peace meal (we all know that a lot of garages do that these days until they hit on the fault AND still charge for all the parts),

So, left the Dodge at home yesterday and took the trusty Gmc to a local (for us) show at Stoke Bruene "Village at war" great day and met some very interesting people (Pershing Dougboys and do they know thier stuff...respect) also a couple of rivet counters who were sent off with a very large flea in thier ear!!!! dont you just love it when people know better but have never owned an MV but are experts on paint colour.

Anyway back to the Dodge,I have always used the back to base set up. For me this was the fact that before re-fueling at Asda I had NO problems. SO I have a tank full of suspect and now contaminated (with parafin :blush:) petrol .So why did he use parafin I hear you all cry what a plonker. I suppose its the fact that the three people who suggested using it seemed SOOO convincing, in desporation on Friday afternoon I tried it. Do I suggest its use..... NO,things went from bad to worse to down right.....well I cant say as there may be ladies reading this. Needless to say within about three miles we came to a stop four times,all this during the school run time(by accident :blush:)

This morning I removed the outlet pipe from the bulkhead filter unit,connected it to a 20 lt fuel can (fresh petrol) and crossed all fingers and toes including the wifes !!!!. Apart from the fact the wife was unable to walk, crossing her toes may have worked on this occasion. Done a twenty mile run,a mixture of "A and B" roads and atm seems pretty good.

Ok its too early to say its definatley the fuel (it may be the fuel lines from the tank) but it seems a positive step to me.

I wont know for sure until I drain the fuel and put some fresh in.......I will update at that stage.

NO more CHEAP fuel or parafin for me.

As an aside could anyone tell me what temp their Dodge runs at ? ours over the last couple of days has been around the 180 mark. I seem to recal in the summer :laugh: it was nearer 160 but would you think thats because of the very warm weather of the last few days ?

Thanks again.....

Gary

[Tony B]

180 in the last few days is not that bad. The temprture will rise when you slow or come to an idle anyway, more importamtly is what is oil presure doing after ahot run? Either way in weather like this idle the engine for a couple of minutes BEFORE shutting down! Let temp oil readings return to normal. Engine timing can cause a rise in temprature. Contaminated fuel, I;m still not that convinced. the fact she ran when piped from a can, that is more likley to be a fuel line problem, or dirty tank, pick up. The lazy way is an air line engine end of the fuel line. The better way is check and replace the lines. Filter the old fuel through a fine nylon stocking and water down with fresh fuel (To expensive just to dump)

[gas 44]

Once again Tony thanks for your input. Re oil pressure,when hot at idle its about 35/40 when traveling at about 40mph its about 45/50 and if you rev the engine a bit higher its up to about 60 ish.The oil colour also seems ok.

I have always allowed engines to run a little after use as well running for a while before moving off. I know some disagree with that but with over 2,000,000 miles driven and to date no major engine failures I cant be all wrong.

Re the fuel,I'm not saying outright that its the fuel as I said i will do more investigation .But my next thing is to drain tank and refill with fresh then try.Maybe a bit trial and error but hopefully I will trace the fault. If it turns out to be the lines then they will be replaced....as I said I dont believe in peace meal changing.

Thanks again

Gary

[Tony B]

I agree on the fuel lines, much simpler to change the whole lot with a modern material (I'll admit to liking transparent line of aircraft type) I have to say the only annoying fault my Dodge has come up with in ten years was an electrical Gremlin picked in France (Blame the Frogs as usuaul!) The screw on the back of the ignition works loose! New screw an excorsism has cured that though.

[Enigma]

I had a similar problem until I noticed the problems started after EXCACT 43 minutes.

Turned out to be the coil.

It didn't get warm but it was the problem.

Swapped for same type coil, about 1-1/2 hour, then problems.

 

Another coil...it gets hot problem solved.

[gas 44]

Hi Tony,yes if it does turn out to be the fuel line from the tank,then I think I would change all of them to be on the safe side. By the way how does the oil pressure sound to you.

I will of course update when I think the problem is solved but tbh its going to be a couple of weeks before I can get the time I need.

Gary