Saracen windup relief.

[DP1981]

Morning Gents

 

Finaly having my Sarry delivered to me in Norfolk this week. Following servicing and winter works i will be taking here back to London hopefully under her own steam. Everything being well mechanically the only thing i am concerned about with the 112 mile drive is windup. Such a long distance on hard road even with well matched tires is going to generate some tension.

My route brings me A11 - A14 - A11 - M11 right up to the M11 there is plenty of opportunity to get my nearsides off the road and the odd chance to bump offside up too. there are a few long stretches (20+miles at a time) past that where i'm stuck to the road.

 

So suggestions if you please.

[oily]

you should be ok, as most of the longest part of your journey seems to be straightish motorway. A year or so ago, I drove from Southampton to Ascot and back, in my saracen, to do a prom for a friend, all up it was around 126miles, if I remember, all went very well, no wind-up, (not that I could detect anyway), only issues were fuel filter got a little blocked, by some residue from an anti-corrosion treatment I'd previously used, and it's thirst for petrol, I reckon I averaged 8-9mpg, which is very good for one of these.... at times I was cruising at 60mph! too, verified by my partners VW Passat....(have since checked accuracy of the VW and it over reads by 3-4mph, checked saracen, by using a sat-nav, whilst driving, and top cruising speed seems to waver between 55 and 58mph).... so as long as all your fluids are topped up (including the fluid flywheel!), tyre pressures are correct, (they are all different, front/centre/rear,... please read manual:readbook:....)

Apparently the Saracen was the best of the FV600 series when it came to road-use, with very little evidence of damage caused by wind-up.... I have heard a rainy day helps, as it allows for some slippage, but the tyres don't grip too well in very heavy rain, so watch your speed, if it starts to pour! good luck!

[Tony B]

Eh, I'd check weather forcast if I were you. Mind you, with a saracen..... Who cares anyway! :-D

[sirhc]

Is it not cheaper to low loader it than to pay the fuel? If you do decide to drive it, make sure you have a backup plan and some way of recovering it quickly if it breaks down. The Police will want it moving straight away if it dies on the motorway, and the bill won't be cheap.

[DP1981]

it's looking like it is going to cost me £700 to lowloader it from london to Norfolk in the first place! it is curently in Hackney which is inside the LEZ which seens to be bumping the cost up nicely.

The winter is going to be mostly servicing checking refitting and painting time. Glad to hear the saracens were the best behaved of the bunch.

[radiomike7]

Bumping a Saracen type vehicle up a bank every mile or so is an old wives tale, yes it will temporarily relieve the wind up in the drive gears but they will wind up again in a very short space of time.

 

Suppose the tyres on one side are within 2% of each other, a not unreasonable tolerance for worn tyres. For each revolution, 2% represents 7.2 degrees, after 10 revolutions or circa 115 feet of travel it is 72 degrees and I doubt that even the most worn out Alvis 6x6 has anything like 72 degrees of play in the drive gears. Even with a 1% tyre tolerance the figure would be 36 degrees after just 115 feet.

 

Once you get to a corner and the 3 wheels on one side follow a slightly different track it gets even worse.

Edited November 22, 2010 by radiomike7

[ferretfixer]

it's looking like it is going to cost me £700 to lowloader it from london to Norfolk in the first place! it is curently in Hackney which is inside the LEZ which seens to be bumping the cost up nicely.

The winter is going to be mostly servicing checking refitting and painting time. Glad to hear the saracens were the best behaved of the bunch.

 

Move her on a Weekend then, the congestion charge is dropped over that period. :cool2:

[radiomike7]

Move her on a Weekend then, the congestion charge is dropped over that period. :cool2:

 

Congestion charge yes, LEZ is 24/7/365. However you only currently need Euro 3 which many trucks built in the last 10 years comply with.

[oily]

1. pray for rain,

2. pay for fuel,

3. 'Autohome' do an excellent breakdown/recovery service £125 per year, but if it breaks down and can't be fixed, it HAS to go on a low loader, NOT suspended tow,(-at least not without disconnecting drive to front and centre wheels).

4. take it very steady if it's the 1st time you've ever driven one on the road, and have a 'commander/spotter' in the turret,

5. ideally, use intercom too!

[Tony B]

£125 is about three miles at heavy commercial recovery rate! So excelent value! Touch the winch on a recovery truck for a bus +£250

[Richard Farrant]

it HAS to go on a low loader, NOT suspended tow,(-at least not without disconnecting drive to front and centre wheels).

 

 

Err, no. You remove the sun wheels from those wheels on the road, so on a front lift, you remove them from rear wheels. This stops the transission driving back through to the transferbox. Transfer box has an oil pump which will not function while being towed. Oh, and Forward/reverse lever to be in neutral as well.

[oily]

... so therefore the drive is disconnected,... that is to say by towing with front lift, the 'driving force' from the wheels in contact with the road is disconnected, which is what I meant,... maybe it was in a roundabout fashion:nut:, though - I knew what I meant:D

[montie]

Err, no. You remove the sun wheels from those wheels on the road, so on a front lift, you remove them from rear wheels. This stops the transission driving back through to the transferbox. Transfer box has an oil pump which will not function while being towed. Oh, and Forward/reverse lever to be in neutral as well.

 

Richard, I'm so sh*t scared of touching those sun wheels after I found the busted one on my sarie, especially with the assembly procedure to reinstall!! For you professionals, it is a piece of pie! I would much rather lift the fuel tank panels, remove the circlips on the drive shafts and slide the splined sleeves forward to disconnect the forward set of wheels.

[Richard Farrant]

Richard, I'm so sh*t scared of touching those sun wheels after I found the busted one on my sarie, especially with the assembly procedure to reinstall!! For you professionals, it is a piece of pie! I would much rather lift the fuel tank panels, remove the circlips on the drive shafts and slide the splined sleeves forward to disconnect the forward set of wheels.

 

 

Hi Montie,

 

That is a fair comment for a private owner, without the special tools, but when army recovery had to move a broken down one from the highway, it was the procedure. Refitting it would have been a mechanics job.

 

I do recollect you had to slide back one of your coupling sleeves. You were lucky, I have seen them rusted solid.

[simonm]

Can I add a comment that I am sure you have thought of. Its just that to keep in the back of your mind when you come off the motorway having got used to the speed - okay its only up to 45 / 50mph "I am not in a car, I must really slow down a lot otherwise I will go straight over this roundabout"

 

I must admit to having had a scare at just 20mph in my 12 ton Saracen, not a particularly sharp corner, but she really seriously wanted to go straight on. Fortunately just a grass verge and I stopped without any great problem, but a lesson in Newton's 1st law. "I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it. "

And with 12 tons you need a lot of force!

 

As to wind up, every so often after a drive I jack up one side to relieve any wind up, I have never seen the wheels 'jerk' and invariably the hub filler bolts always look correctly aligned. I must admit to coming round to the often quoted comment that wind up, while not being a myth, isn't something to get paranoid over.

 

Otherwise, good luck and have a great journey, I envy you, driving mine is fantastic, exhilarating, the thought of doing a mjor journey like yours, Wow!

Edited December 12, 2010 by simonm

[Timinder]

Is this the blue "Riot Squad" one parked just down the road from me now?

[DP1981]

Yes it is 'that' saracen. perhaps i should not paint it and bring it to a show and see how long it remains blue before everyone gangs up on it with tins of leftover paint

[oily]

 

Yes it is 'that' saracen. perhaps i should not paint it and bring it to a show and see how long it remains blue before everyone gangs up on it with tins of leftover paint

ha! ...it might be a cheap way of getting a repaint!

 

[montie]

Yes it is 'that' saracen. perhaps i should not paint it and bring it to a show and see how long it remains blue before everyone gangs up on it with tins of leftover paint

 

You truly are between a rock and a hard place!

 

Paint it and with it goes the most famous (infamous) Sarry's recent history, if you don't, everybody is going to hassle you!!

 

Keep it like that for the time being and see how it goes. What condition is the paint in?

[DP1981]

Funnily enough i had the same thought about painting as i was browsing paint cost the other day. Do i preserve history by re-creating something that this vehicle has never done (it sat in a yard most of it's life never saw a day active) or do i leave it as it was re-purposed and fairly well documented for a unique machine. Ok for not entirely sensible reasons but in it's current state it has a story that is reflective of the times *Sigh* hard choices.

Next question. Before i go ahead and stamp these markings into the gate is this the correct layout? i have chipped and brushed and chipped but cannot find signs of the original marking.

 

Edited December 15, 2010 by DP1981

[montie]

Funnily enough i had the same thought about painting as i was browsing paint cost the other day. Do i preserve history by re-creating something that this vehicle has never done (it sat in a yard most of it's life never saw a day active) or do i leave it as it was re-purposed and fairly well documented for a unique machine. Ok for not entirely sensible reasons but in it's current state it has a story that is reflective of the times *Sigh* hard choices.

Next question. Before i go ahead and stamp these markings into the gate is this the correct layout? i have chipped and brushed and chipped but cannot find signs of the original marking.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38772[/ATTACH]

 

I had similar problems but worse assumptions on the positions. Fortunately Richard had corrected me. Third is where you have indicated neutral and neutral is the horisontal slot between the vertical legs. It is somewhere on my rebuild thread as well.

[DP1981]

So this layout then.

 

I knew i had seen it somewhere but could not for the life of me remember it.

[Richard Farrant]

So this layout then.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38775[/ATTACH]

I knew i had seen it somewhere but could not for the life of me remember it.

 

 

Spot on !

[sirhc]

Next question. Before i go ahead and stamp these markings into the gate is this the correct layout? i have chipped and brushed and chipped but cannot find signs of the original marking.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38772[/ATTACH]

 

It should already be stamped there but may be hidden under thick paint. Remove it and give it a blast with some glass beads (or rub it down, paint strip etc) and it should reveal itself.

[simonm]

How did the journey go? Have you done it yet?

[DP1981]

Not yet, festive break and new year happened. I am currently working out finances for the year and seeing what i have free to complete works that are beyond me.

She moves and is running sweetly, I'm having grief getting the accumulators charged amd there is a rattle from the hydraulic pump.

Other than that i think there will be movement within two months.