Van and Truck speed limits

[R Cubed]

Correct me if I am wrong but in this country we have different speed limits for vans and trucks, as opposed to ordinary cars, so on a single carriageway ( two way road ) the limit is 50 MPH, on a dual carriageway two lanes each way it is 60 MPH, and then on a motorway it is 70 MPH. So, to what vehicles do the above limits apply, I am referring to the morphing of cars in to car derived vans ect, also do MPV's and 4x4's come into this, and what is the reasoning behind these limits.

 

Argue away !!!!

[Richard Farrant]

Car derived vans, are same speed limits as cars, it is those vans and trucks that are over 2000kgs gross that are limited to 50 on single carriageways and 60 on dual carriageways and motorways.

You would think the speed limits for vans such as Sprinter and Transit was 80 mph, by the way they want to pass everything on the road !

[Marmite!!]

Clarification of national speed limits for vans

 

 

It is very important for drivers to bear in mind that vans (and all goods vehicles not exceeding 7.5 tonnes) are subject to lower national speed limits than cars on both single and dual carriageway roads.

Whilst a car may travel at up to 60 mph on single carriageways and 70 mph on dual carriageways vans are only allowed to travel up to 50 mph on single carriageway roads and 60 mph on dual carriageway roads.

[Remember that the speed limits quoted here are national limits, a lower speed limit will apply in built up areas and on many local roads. Where a lower speed limit is signed you must comply with those lower limits].

Q. Where do these different speed limits for vans come from?

 

A. The national speed limits are set out in Schedule 6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act of 1984 and they are summarised in regulation 124 of the Sept 2007 version of the Highway Code.

Q. Why should vans have lower speed limits than cars when they now have modern advanced braking systems like cars?

 

A. The main reason for these lower speed limits is that goods vehicles are designed to be able to carry heavier loads and when laden they will tend to take longer to slow down than a car travelling at the same speed.

Q. Why are the speed limits different when very often cars & vans are in the same tax class for DVLA registration purposes?

 

A. Some people make the mistake of thinking that if a van is in the same tax or registration class as a car then it is subject to the same speed limits. However the two issues are unrelated and they are governed by different legislation. National speed limits are set out in the 1984 legislation are based on the possible load capacities of the vehicle and whether or not it is used for carrying passengers.

Q. Are there any exemptions from these lower speed limits for vans?

 

A. There is one (small) group of vans which have the same speed limits are cars by virtue of the definitions in Schedule 6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act of 1984. These are vans that are both derived from a car chassis and also have a maximum laden weight of no more than 2 tonnes. This means that the weight of the vehicle and the payload it is designed to be able to carry when added together do not exceed 2 tonnes. The van design must be a derivative of a car body, it is not sufficient that it looks similar to a particular car.

Q. Which vans meet the criteria to be considered car derived vans for speed limit purposes?

 

A. Very few vans will meet the criteria to benefit from the same speed limits as a car. Those that do are likely to be similar to a Ford Fiesta van ,Vauxhall Corsa or Renault Clio van in having maximum payloads of around 500kgs so that when combined with the weight of the vehicle unladen (normally around 1.4 tonnes) the maximum laden weight of the whole vehicle will not exceed 2 tonnes.

What this means is that vans such as the Ford Transit and (and of course the larger panel vans) will not meet the definition of car derived vans set out set out in part IV section 2 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. Therefore these vehicles will be subject to speed limits of 50mph on single carriageways and 60 mph on dual carriageways.

Q. When did these rules come in and shouldn't they be changed now?

 

A. These speed limit rules have been in place for well over 20 years and there are no plans to change these limits to allow vans to be driven at higher speeds because ministers remain to be convinced that it would be safe to do so.

Q. Do these speed limits apply if the van is travelling without a load?

 

A. The national speed limits apply to the vehicle type and it makes no difference whether the vehicle at a particular time is fully loaded, partially loaded or travelling without a load.

Q. If my van is fitted with a speed limiter then it can't do more than 56 mph anyway so why should I worry about these speed limits?

 

A. The only non HGV goods vehicles that are required to have a speed limiter are those which were registered after 30th September 2001 and have a gross design weight of over 3.5 tonnes. Therefore most vans will not be fitted with a limiter. In any case on particular local roads the speed limits may be lower than these national ones. It is vital to keep within the speed limits specified on road signs and also to vary your vehicle's speed according to the prevailing weather or traffic conditions.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Marmite!!

[radiomike7]

Good find Lee, that explains why I was ticked off by Mr Plod for 70 on a dual carriageway in an Escort van many years ago. I believed that the Escort was a car derived van which clearly in the eyes of the law it isn't.

[Richard Farrant]

Good find Lee, that explains why I was ticked off by Mr Plod for 70 on a dual carriageway in an Escort van many years ago. I believed that the Escort was a car derived van which clearly in the eyes of the law it isn't.

 

 

My VW Caddy van is 1730kgs gross, and is car derived so no problem there, would have thought an Escort van was under 2000kgs all up.

[mike65]

Good find Lee, that explains why I was ticked off by Mr Plod for 70 on a dual carriageway in an Escort van many years ago. I believed that the Escort was a car derived van which clearly in the eyes of the law it isn't.

 

 

Depends what you think a dual carriageway is.

If I remember correctly

A dual carriageway is a road where the opposing traffic flows are seperated by a barrier or strip of land.

Therefore a dual carriageway could have a single lane in each direction and a road with 2 lanes in each direction may not be a dual carriageway.

 

Also Mr Plod may not have been right.

 

Mike

Edited November 7, 2010 by mike65
Keyboard has keys in wrong place.

[Marmite!!]

Good find Lee, that explains why I was ticked off by Mr Plod for 70 on a dual carriageway in an Escort van many years ago. I believed that the Escort was a car derived van which clearly in the eyes of the law it isn't.

Found this letter from the DfT when searching for info..

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for your enquiry (copied below) and request that we list car-derived vans: Because of the limited definition in law of a car-derived van, the only test of whether an individual vehicle falls into that category is via a court of law. Government departments cannot make that judgement and so do not issue lists of car-derived vans.

 

When asked to comment on a specific vehicle this department has applied a rule of thumb that;

- vans sharing the same chassis and body shell with a car but with some of the window apertures filled with metal, appear to satisfy the definition of car-derived van.

- vans comprising a car chassis throughout and the car body-shell from front bumper to “B” post (the door-post behind the front-doors ;with, say, a box body behind), appear to satisfy the definition of car-derived van.

 

Using those criteria, this Division recently advised an enquirer that the Vauxhall Combo did not appear to be a car-derived van since its wheel-base and track are different from those of the Corsa car. However, we added the caveat that our advice was subject to any decision made in a court of law. In the case of the Vauxhall Combo Kombi; this vehicle appears to be derived from the Combo van not the other way about. And therefore the Combo cannot be described as car-derived.

 

To answer your last point, about the police application of the law: As the law stands at present the only recourse for a motorist is to challenge the speeding prosecution in court.

 

I regret that I cannot advise you further.

 

Malcolm Burch

Senior Policy Advisor

LRI 2

Department for Transport

 

[gritineye]

It's all a bit of a mess really isn't it? What about van derived cars?

 

My wife owns a Fiat Ducato maxi based camper van, converted from new by a major name in the trade, cost the first owner 40K +. Just had a look and guess what...body type = panel van!

 

Bit of a time bomb to leave paying customers holding. I hadn't given it a thought till now, and of course drive it as if it is a car:argh:

[antarmike]

I can't see an answer yet regarding 4x4 vehicles. Most small 4x4's are Dual Purose Vehicles or DPV's. (although not all DPV's are 4x4's) So I will give you how I see it, but I am confused...

 

 

First definition of a DPV.....

A dual purpose vehicle is one that is a vehicle constructed and adapted for the carriage of both passengers and goods UW not exceeding 2,040 Kgs and

a) is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by appropriate use of controls can be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle or is

b)

it is constructed so that it has a rigid roof, with or without a sliding roof panel,

the area to the rear of the driver must have at least one row of properly upholstered transverse seats( fixed or folding,capable of carrying at least two passengers,

The distance from the steering wheel to the backrest of the rearmost seat must not be less than one third the distance between the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor and

the windows to the rear of the driver must have an area of not less than 1,850 Square centimetres on either side of the vehicle and 770 square CMs at the rear.

 

 

The above definition from Reg 3 road Vehicles (construction and use) regs 1986

 

 

 

Road traffic Regulations act 1984 S 86 and Schedule 6 says;_

Dual purpose vehicles are subject to the following limits

Motorway 70

Dual carriageway 70

other road 60 MPH.

 

However most confusingly the same regs talk about DPV without trailer UW exceeding 3.05 Tonnes or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers as having a speed limit of

 

Length not exceeding 12m 70/60/50

 

Length exceeding 12m 60/60/50

 

I fail to see how a DPV can exceed 3.05 Tonnes UW when C and U limit a DPV to 2.04 Tonnes. Can someone harmonise these two pieces of legislation and explain the apparent contradiction?

Edited November 7, 2010 by antarmike

[radiomike7]

Found this letter from the DfT when searching for info..

 

- vans comprising a car chassis throughout and the car body-shell from front bumper to “B” post (the door-post behind the front-doors ;with, say, a box body behind), appear to satisfy the definition of car-derived van.

 

In that case the Escort van would not come under CDV as the chassis and suspension aft of the B pillar is totally different to the car.

[radiomike7]

Depends what you think a dual carriageway is.

If I remember correctly

A dual carriageway is a road where the opposing traffic flows are seperated by a barrier or strip of land.

Therefore a dual carriageway could have a single lane in each direction and a road with 2 lanes in each direction may not be a dual carriageway.

 

Also Mr Plod may not have been right.

 

Mike

 

Quite correct Mike, amazing how many people don't know that one.

[antarmike]

I can't see an answer yet regarding 4x4 vehicles. Most small 4x4's are Dual Purose Vehicles or DPV's. (although not all DPV's are 4x4's)

 

Thinking about it this isn't so..

 

a DPV has to be designed or adapted to carry goods, so I doubt whether all Dicovery's and the like, troopers etc , ambulance bodied land Rovers, are DPV's

It would appear to me that Lightweights, 101's, series landies, with a definite load area are DPV's.....many of the Chelsea Taxi's would not be.....

Edited November 8, 2010 by antarmike

[TooTallMike]

Actually 'dual purpose vehicle' was to have been removed as a class this year. No idea if it has happened. (This is what all the Land Rover owners with incorrect weights in their V5s have been getting in a tizz about as they will be class 7 MoT instead of class 4 if over 3,000kg.)

 

- MG

[antarmike]

so have C and U regs been amended?

[utt61]

Actually 'dual purpose vehicle' was to have been removed as a class this year. No idea if it has happened. (This is what all the Land Rover owners with incorrect weights in their V5s have been getting in a tizz about as they will be class 7 MoT instead of class 4 if over 3,000kg.)

 

- MG

 

I believe that what was to be removed was the specific exemption to the MOT testing regulations that permitted dual purpose vehicles to be exempt from Class 7 testing under certain circumstances.

 

As far as I am aware (which may not be very far!) there was no change to the C&U regulations, and therefore the definition of a DPV is unchanged. (There have incidentally been well over 200 amendments to the C&U regs, and it is not possible to obtain a single current document stating the cumulative effect of these).

 

For Land-Rover drivers the situation is now even more obfusc. Until recently, vehicles like the Defender 110 Double Cab pickup were 2010Kg UW and could be taxed as light goods vehicles and travel at car speed limits by virtue of being DPVs. Now LR have increased the UW to 2050Kg which means that they (probably) are not DPVs. So what speed limits apply? Is a DC a goods vehicle or a car?

 

The situation is now almost surreal in its complexity.

 

I don't think anyone really knows the answers any more, and there will need to be a court case to establish some case law.

[antarmike]

I have googled DPV and haven't found anything to suggest speed limits have changed for vehicles fully complying with the C and U definition...That doesn't mean it may not have changed, just that as yet I can find no reference to a change in speed limits...."Ask a Copper" "ask a policeman " whatever the site is called still gives DPV with 70/70/60 limit....

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/q529.htm

http://www.dcsafetycameras.org/education/carDrivers/index.aspx

Edited November 8, 2010 by antarmike

[TooTallMike]

I believe that what was to be removed was the specific exemption to the MOT testing regulations that permitted dual purpose vehicles to be exempt from Class 7 testing under certain circumstances.

 

As far as I am aware (which may not be very far!) there was no change to the C&U regulations, and therefore the definition of a DPV is unchanged. (

 

I've just re-read the info sheet and I see they do only talk directly in relation to testing, not to the disappearance from C&U of the class. That's even more farcical than I already thought!

- MG

[antarmike]

This consulation is now closed. I don't know of its progress through to legilation...

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/2010-06/responses.pdf

[Stone]

Actually 'dual purpose vehicle' was to have been removed as a class this year. No idea if it has happened. (This is what all the Land Rover owners with incorrect weights in their V5s have been getting in a tizz about as they will be class 7 MoT instead of class 4 if over 3,000kg.)

Or even worse, some of them (admittedly few, the only one I can think of offhand is the Hummer H2) exceed 3500kg maximum weight and so can't be driven on a car (B) licence!

 

I agree with some others above that it's all gone a bit silly. Really it needs someone to take an axe to it all and start again from scratch :nut:

 

Stone

[utt61]

Or even worse, some of them (admittedly few, the only one I can think of offhand is the Hummer H2) exceed 3500kg maximum weight and so can't be driven on a car (B) licence!

 

Surely a Hummer was too heavy to be a DPV anyway (ie over 2040KG UW)? If it was over 3500 GVW it couldn't be driven on a Cat B licence ever (it would need Cat C1 or C).

Edited November 9, 2010 by utt61

[utt61]

This consulation is now closed. I don't know of its progress through to legilation...

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/2010-06/responses.pdf

 

 

And I see that it refers (in A4) to "dual purpose vehicles .... where they weigh more than 3.05 tonnes unladen" which is paradoxical since the C&U Regs define a DPV as weighing a max of 2040Kg UW!

 

Interesting thought that there is absolutely no mention of DPVs anywhere else in the document, although the situation with respect to PCVs (which are also included in A4 quoted above) is expanded upon considerably.

 

Confusion reigns!

[utt61]

I've just re-read the info sheet and I see they do only talk directly in relation to testing, not to the disappearance from C&U of the class. That's even more farcical than I already thought!

- MG

 

See the "MOT Special Notice" at http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/SN%2005-2009%20Dual%20purpose%20Vehicles%20Emission%20Book%20V1.0.pdf

 

This makes it clear that the amendments are to the Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations only and cannot have any effect whatsoever on speed limits.

[R Cubed]

Wow what a can of worms, and I was just meaning the speed limits for cars and car derived vans and trucks, when I added the bit about DPV I did not think it would get this bad, well carry on good bits in this I did not know about the dual carriageway bit with the barrier or grass island :nut:

[R Cubed]

Ok so what applies to an A*(M) you know an A road which is also a motorway, do motorway rules apply ?

[antarmike]

Ok so what applies to an A*(M) you know an A road which is also a motorway, do motorway rules apply ?

Treated as being a motorway in all respects, including speed limits.