Gate Guardians

[Big Al]

I will have to hit Big Al on the head with a spanner for having the temerity to say ' I think all gate guardians' when of course he should have said 'I think the vast majority of tank gate guardians'. I am sure he feels the level of shame appropriate to the degree of this error.

 

The Shame yes I should have said "I think the VAST majority of tank gate quardians" I am sorry for this steve, but I am confused about your comments about "The friends of the tank museum" I cannot see any posts on this thread from "The friends of the tank museum"? Yes there are members who use HMVF but as I am aware the posts made by them have nothing to do with TFTM. May be Jack and his staff should have a look at your statment and make a comment. I like using this forum and read it two or three times a day it has good banter and is very informated and most posts are made in a freindly form.

Al

[AlienFTM]

The Shame yes I should have said "I think the VAST majority of tank gate quardians" I am sorry for this steve, but I am confused about your comments about "The friends of the tank museum" I cannot see any posts on this thread from "The friends of the tank museum"? Yes there are members who use HMVF but as I am aware the posts made by them have nothing to do with TFTM. May be Jack and his staff should have a look at your statment and make a comment. I like using this forum and read it two or three times a day it has good banter and is very informated and most posts are made in a freindly form.

Al

 

There are Friends of the Tank Museum and friends of the Tank Museum. I suspect the previous poster was referring to friends, not Friends.

 

HTH

[John Pearson]

Eh? Tell me more!

 

Andy

 

I went to see the eclipse in 1999 and on the way went past a garage with a very round shaped but genuine miniature submarine on the forecourt, painted yellow. I think it was probably an exploration or rescue type vehicle rather than a Navy craft. Unfortunately, I have no real idea where it was so having whetted your appetite, I now have to disappoint as to location!

Sorry!!

[steveo578]

Steve,

You are not my ex wife posting under an assumed name are you???

Most amusing I’m almost splitting my sides with laughter and had you left it there I might have found it vaguely amusing, I’ve looked down my front and have to conclude I am definitely male –however I actually do not find people who try to belittle others by impugning their gender and belittling women particularly cleaver. Women are obviously far superior they must be to put up with men as you well demonstrate.

 

I and about 160,000 visitors per year like the Tank Museum, you obviously don't and choose not to support it.

That is the second you have thrown down an accusation that I do not like or support Bovington –actually nothing is further from the truth but it is not your place to impugn me with regard to my likes-dislikes, nor my support – financial, moral or otherwise. Like many other people I have reservations regarding Bovington –but I’m a member of the Friends, regrettably I am not in a position to involve myself in the museum, if I was, I would, but it is most definitely not your right nor position to criticise me with regard to my involvement –you are not aware of my current circumstances..

 

Perhaps I should get you to proof read my posts before posting them if you are going to be so pedantic? Of course, there will obviously be many score of 'gate guardians' that the Tank Museum is not responsible for, aircraft at RAF ……a yellow submarine on a garage ……

You are somewhat hoist by your own petard, you may think it is clearly implicit that

we are talking about the officially placed large AFV gate guardians

 

Big Al

I Belive all Gate Guardians belong to the Tank museum bovington.

Al

Yes that’s really implicit isn’t it, where? What is implicit is the word

“belong”

which implies ownership, I accept your point that the majority of Army holdings are now administered by Bovington but that is a long way from ownership. As for the point I’m being a pedant, perhaps you should have read my Post #8 properly before making your ill considered and obviously un re-read Post #9 wherein you agree with Big Al that

“most are”

when Al actually said

"all"

–need I say more?

 

 

Some time ago I saw a very very long list of such items, the annual stocktake of gate guardians which Bovington IS responsible for, transfered 'en masse' to remove from Army census. Clearly, I did not then drive round the country to cross reference or count any that they were not responsible for but the list was so long there can't have been many spare plinths left.

I will have to hit Big Al on the head with a spanner for having the temerity to say ' I think all gate guardians' when of course he should have said 'I think the vast majority of tank gate guardians'. I am sure he feels the level of shame appropriate to the degree of this error.

Thanks for correction about CFE. No doubt I could have looked up the correct title if I could have been bothered!

John you really should not be sarcastic apart from being the lowest for of wit you’re not really good enough at it and if you post something then you should be prepared to do some research - Tim Berners-Lee didn’t invent the internet for you to be so dismissive.

 

 

John; IMO you really overstepped the line this time, despite my attempt to cool the argument down and move on,

My quote

otherwise we are going to get into a position of having a flaming argument which will have to be resolved by our own MOD and I have set my own limit on the number of awards I will accept

you in particular and to a lesser extent your mate Big Al have decided to take the argument to a new level of offensiveness and schoolboy sarcasm and yes Al if you want to involve Jack, Lee and “Joris” be my guest this time no-one can accuse me of being belligerent.

 

Steve

[Marmite!!]

Please keep this friendly, any other personal remarks by any party will be removed without notice.

If the thread continues as is it will be locked.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Marmite!!

[eddy8men]

anyway, as i was saying earlier anyone got any good gate guardian pics they want to put on.

 

during the first gulf war i had driven and recovered a few gate guardians from around kuwait city, i remember seeing a pic of an mtlb being unloaded at bovvy with 26 fd ra painted on the side which i recovered from under the pylon line north of kuwait city, also at bulford camp there was a tracked command vehicle that i also dragged off.

 

pic of me and daz bibby recovering a 2s3 ready to be dragged off to the equipment collection point.

the 2s3 was a great wagon to drive plenty of power and easy to start and the russians very kindly put the instructions in english

 

eddy

[recymech66]

Here's a pic of a T55 shipped back from Iraq last year. Not sure were it ended up.

 

[steveo578]

Eddy8men

the 2s3 was a great wagon to drive plenty of power and easy to start and the russians very kindly put the instructions in english

Bet you're glad it wasn't in Arabic then

 

Probably the same 2S3

 

 

Whether this counts as a gate guard as such

 

A Shilka at Duxford

 

 

 

Steve

[steveo578]

Eddy

 

Is this the command vehicle you recovered? PRC type 531 command version -exact designation I don't know

 

Another pic of the 2S3

 

 

Steve

[eddy8men]

that might well be the same 2s3 although we did recover a full battery of them so it's anyone's guess, steve the command vehicle isn't the same type, the one i recovered was very long and quite tall, although i did see the type you posted as an ambulance with large red crescent markings on the side and it had been shot up by an a10, which is against the geneva convention i believe but then again the iraqi's had been using it to move ammo around so they got what they deserved !

 

eddy

[steveo578]

Hi Eddy

 

From your description it was Nato Designation ACRV (Armour Command and Reconnaisance Vehicle) M1974 -no doubt there is a proper Soviet/Russian designation- a huge box on the suspension of the 2S1 122mm Howitzer SPG. don't think I've seen one in captivity.

 

Steve

[ArtistsRifles]

<snipped> the russians very kindly put the instructions in english

 

eddy

 

Apparently a lot of export kit was labelled in English - when I was trying to get the controls for the radio in the OT-90 translated (one of the few bits of kit in a Czech vehicle that's in Russian still) a chap at W&P pointed me to a website with pictures of the same set - all in English.....

[eddy8men]

it's funny looking back but all the iraqi armour had instructions in english or russian so it's no wonder the poor buggars lost, they didn't know how to use the kit

 

steve you're right it was the acrv, i've attached a youtube vid of bovvies i wonder if this is the old gate guardian from bulford.

 

 

 

eddy

[steveo578]

Don't know if it's the only one, the one shown could be one that I think was on milweb in the last year or so. The ACRV 1974 is really little more than an over fed MTLB tractor prime mover-APC. I never saw the Bulford one.

 

There is a fair bit of Soviet stuff around I came across various vehicles carrying Soviet armour coming and going from RAF Spadeadam on the A69 when I was working near Hexham 2 years ago - SA8 Gecko 6 wheel A/A system with a BT plate, SA6 straight flush radar unit and Shilka AAA, no photos as I haven't developed three hands as yet.

 

Steve

Edited September 18, 2010 by steveo578
correction

[ajmac]

Years ago when I first visited Bovington there was a North African painted Grizzly as a gate guard, is it still outside or has it been shuffled long ago?

[Adrian Barrell]

no photos as I haven't developed three hands as yet.

 

Steve

 

 

You should play on the ranges where they use DU......

[Adrian Barrell]

Years ago when I first visited Bovington there was a North African painted Grizzly as a gate guard, is it still outside or has it been shuffled long ago?

 

Still around, though moved from the Tank Museum position. This is us recovering it from Sennybridge with a little help from the TA.

[steveo578]

Thanks for sharing- for other members note the sparyed on number 25 in the centre of the hull sponson- all/most of the Grizzlies that were placed as targets had the "shop number" sprayed on before placement. I just noticed the Daimler wreck just beyond the Grizzly.

 

In position as a gateguard at Bovington,(not one of my better photos) note that this one No25 and that shown currently on the HMVF Front Page "Robin Hood" are part of the same production batch being No18. It might be significant that a good prodortion of the ten target Grizzlies were those without the welded on applique, AFAIK only the OTA targets had welded on applique- I wonder if puchasers had a preference for the appliqued tanks or was it just happenstance?

 

Steve

[Big Al]

Still around, though moved from the Tank Museum position. This is us recovering it from Sennybridge with a little help from the TA.

Adrian its been returned to Bovington it is in the workshop yard well it was there yesturday! Dont know what plans they have for it.

Al

[John Pearson]

Thanks for sharing- for other members note the sparyed on number 25 in the centre of the hull sponson- all/most of the Grizzlies that were placed as targets had the "shop number" sprayed on before placement.

Steve

 

The number 25 shown has nothing to do with its shop number and if it is the same then it is pure coincidence. All of the targets on that part of Sennybridge, (just off 'Druids Way'), had sprayed on identification numbers and were marked on the Range maps with the number as it is an otherwise almost featureless area. One exception was Point Kilo, an M40 that was on the skyline and visible for miles and was used as a general reference point but it used a letter, not a number.

While the Grizzly was being recovered by Adrian and one team of Friends of the Tank Museum, I was removing the turret from Valentine target no 43 with another team.

The Daimler was recovered for restoration in 1987 or thereabouts. There were about 9 there, at least 6 were recovered altogether. Several Ferrets, the remains of about 8 Valentine 1's and Point Kilo itself were all also recovered for restoration. One vehicle sadly not recovered was an LVT 4 "Buffalo"

[AndyFowler]

This one was on a short holiday to the Great Dorset Steam Fair earlier this month !

[steveo578]

A

ndyFowler

This one was on a short holiday to the Great Dorset Steam Fair earlier this month ! :-D

 

Yes that's Cricklade Grizzly 25 which as mentioned was returned to Bovington after being on loan elsewhere.

[steveo578]

John Pearson

The number 25 shown has nothing to do with its shop number and if it is the same then it is pure coincidence. All of the targets on that part of Sennybridge, (just off 'Druids Way'), had sprayed on identification numbers and were marked on the Range maps with the number as it is an otherwise almost featureless area.

Co-indicence perhaps:??? two photos from elsewhere on HMVF of Grizzlies photographed by Adrian Barrell and Bob Grundy tends to confirm what I said

 

Bob Grundys photo of a Grizzly at Lulworth note the 161 on side

 

While not relevant to the point I make about the spray can marking - because of the type of carapice -a late model with intergral applique and what looks like a casting mark on the right turret cheek I think it may be the ex RCMS Shrivenham Gate guard which was later probably a Gate guard at Belefeld in the 1990s, I am unsure to where this tank is now- if anyone has seen it recently the number is stamped under the G logo on the glacis.

 

The OTA Grizzly No76 and a close up, the number is 52 was also visible on it companion but doesn't show up on any photos I have now -it was only visible when wet:cheesy:

 

 

Adrian pic of the Grizzly under tow on Sennybridge and again a close up

 

 

The thing to note about all these numbers 25-76 and 161 is the similarity of script and colour- I know that even in the 1980s the army was shrinking but I doubt they had one squaddie-specialist running around the various gunnery ranges with his standard issue light blue "banksie spray can". It is confirmed that the 3 vehicles in question Cricklade-Winton is Shop#25 the 2 OTA tanks were Shop No#52 and #76. It is unfortunate that no-one has earlier photos of the Warcop targets -one was possibly Shop No#134 as the speed plate of #134 turned up and doesn't seem to relate to any surviving Grizzly. Speed plate or Shop No#91 also exists and it too possibly relates to another targeted tank, which would have welded applique- perhaps a 3rd target on Warcop.

 

BTW the LTV4 was possibly an LVT3

 

I apologise to Adrian and Bob for not PM them first before re-using the photos they posted.

 

Steve

[Adrian Barrell]

BTW the LTV4 was possibly an LVT3

 

I apologise to Adrian and Bob for not PM them first before re-using the photos they posted.

 

Steve

 

 

It was an LVT3 and no problem with the pics, they are up here for discussion.

[Adrian Barrell]

The OTA Grizzly No76 and a close up, the number is 52 was also visible on it companion but doesn't show up on any photos I have now -it was only visible when wet:cheesy:

Steve

 

It does on this one of David Herberts. It is painted on twice, once below the shovel head bracket and again below the rear lifting eye.