Guest matt Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Seeing that halftrack in picture of the week is what prompts me to ask this question. When is an MV too far gone to restore? does it depend on the rarity of the type,or would the condition alone decide whether it is restorable? In the September 06 Classic and Vintage Commercials Magazine there is an article on the restoration of a 1927 Crossley 14hp BGV1 truck. The project started out as a chassis(which had been cut in half),axles and wheels.everything else had to be found or built from scratch. How many MV restorers would tackle a restoration of this scale? I know there are a few on this forum who have done just that and have in the process rescued rare,and sometimes unique,vehicles. There are several WW2 trucks which were supplied in small numbers and of which none are known to have survived,and I just wonder how many of us would actually give a second glance to a bare,rusting chassis in some yard or patch of brambles. Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I sure would remember it and find somebody who could restore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 This an interesting post worthy of some chatter. I've seen the Crossley and it is brilliant. It was on the HCVS London to Brighton Run. I believe it was one of very few not built for the military and if memory serves me well there is one in store from the old MoM at Beverley (I was there when the army cleared it out - a memorable day). But I think some people would prefer to consider it more of a replica than a real thing given the amount of fabrication required. I don't know where these things properly divide and would welcome a view from the chaps who restore WW1 era vehicles who monitor the forum. Maybe some people would prefer to describe the well known jadpanther as a replica given the amount of new material added. My final view is who cares? The skills to recreate the vehicles are amazing and the dedication worthy of high praise. Anyone bringing out examples of long lost MVs get my vote. I can well remember seeing a AEC of Guy armoured HQ truck rotting away in an Essex field near Basildon for years and often wonder what happened to it. Another loss.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEnfield Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Its amazing, there are some really tallented people out there, (also some with DEEP pockets)............... Typing this before sitting down to watch a (sadly departed) guy who has given (gave ?)so much to the 'preservation', heritage type 'industry',............yes, I'm talking Fred Dibnah.................. Anyways, back to subject being talked about, here,.............How about vehicles, that are left, parked up, and slowly rusting away,.......only to be informed by owners,when approached with a view to restore,......NO............NoT For SALE,.etc. Fairly near to me, I know of a halftrack and a stolly. Sitting out in the open deteriorating. NOT FOR SALE. I'd be the first to accept that the owners have that right, to decide that, but it does seem very short sighted, esp in relation to WWII vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildside Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I restored an eleven cab chevrolet field artillery tractor way back in the early1990.s and it had been looked at by a lot of people who said it was to bad to restore i restored it over 6 years and on a beg scrounge borrow budget totally no help from visa or access at all. Also i partly restored a 1915 wos albion in the same way and this one had been converted from a lorry to a trailer these things can be done with a lot of time and patience and it you are are fond enough of the truck you want to restore anything is possible on a low budget and lots of pondering>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowtracdave Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 The old memory may be playing tricks after so many years but this brings to mind the bus at the National Motor Museum which is used to give visitor rides and I seem to remember was described as having been restored from one surviving seat....... A little off topic but to address a point already raised in this thread : It also puts me on the other side of the fence - in our yard sits our 1979 Bedford TK : By no means rare or unique but Dad bought it new as a replacement for our 1965 Austin , he drove it briefly , I drove it for ten years and my brother took it over for the rest of it's working life . It is now retired and superceded by a Mitsubishi Canter, sheeted up in the corner of the yard and I hope one day in the not too distant I will get enough time away from having to earn a living to get the old thing up and running , presentable and in to a few local shows . Not one other of our previous vehicles survives and dad asked us to promise not to sell it but to keep it and show it . And I am pig sick of every Tom , Dick & Harry wandering into the yard and all but demanding that the vehicle be sold to them as it is presently sitting unused and ought to be with somebody who cares for it more than we do . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedford Boys Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I believe that if you have pieces of a vehicle and are keen enough to build it, all credit to you. I am a firm believer in keeping history alive and not letting vehicles disappear into the depths of history. This means that you could start with say a chassis and build eveything else, it doesn't matter, you have revived that vehicle, you have stopped that particular piece of history from rotting away. However, you CANNOT parade the vehicle around stating that it is an "original" or "restored" vehicle. You must tell people what you started with and what you made. This applys especially to when you sell the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woa2 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I know it's not Military, but have you seen that Buggati car that was taken from a lake in Switzerland? If that can be restored, then anything is possible. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1241644/The-rare-Bugatti-car-plucked-lake-70-years-fetch-80-000-auction.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woa2 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I believe that if you have pieces of a vehicle and are keen enough to build it, all credit to you. I am a firm believer in keeping history alive and not letting vehicles disappear into the depths of history. This means that you could start with say a chassis and build eveything else, it doesn't matter, you have revived that vehicle, you have stopped that particular piece of history from rotting away. However, you CANNOT parade the vehicle around stating that it is an "original" or "restored" vehicle. You must tell people what you started with and what you made. This applys especially to when you sell the vehicle. Thinking about Bugattis, I beleive there are more racing Bugattis about than were made as people used just a few parts and fabricated the rest as their value was so great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bystander Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) Thinking about Bugattis, I beleive there are more racing Bugattis about than were made as people used just a few parts and fabricated the rest as their value was so great. Just so, it is alleged that on certain 70 or 80% restorations, unscrupulous restorers have left the descarded parts in the undergrowth and have then "discovered" them a few years later, and voila another Bugatti for restoration. I believe that the point of the infamous Bugatti T35, raced by a noted British Bugatti restorer, which was quite openly constructed from a polyglot collection of spare parts yet was FIA certified as an original car for historic racing, as it met the criteria by having enough bits that were originally off a T35 Bugatti, was to expose the situation. I think that you will also find that there are now more Lola T70s on the historic scene than were ever built... As you say when something becomes worth more than the cost of building a replica funny things happen... Also note the problem with fakes in the art market, which is a wider problem than the vested interests of dealers, auction houses, and speculators wish to acknowledge. Still not likely with many MVs... yet, but I would have thought that this might become an issue with certain German WW2 stuff before long. Edited January 26, 2010 by Bystander typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Seeing that halftrack in picture of the week is what prompts me to ask this question. When is an MV too far gone to restore? does it depend on the rarity of the type,or would the condition alone decide whether it is restorable? Matt. As some of the posts have touched on, I believe the main reason for a restoration is because the individual wants to do it or wants that particuliar vehicle. Some do it because it's cheaper to buy a wreck than a restored one. Money helps of course but dedication and enjoying a challenge is more of requirement as we have seen 10 year restoration projects. I marvel at what people do if they want to do it. I seen a website where a guy rebuilt a Willy's and what he started with was barely recognisable as a jeep. Paitience is a big factor i.e. when that bolt don't come out it is not always necessary to bring out the liquid socket set. I have rebuilt a Lightweight and now am involved in rebuilding a few Pinzgauers but I like myself to Grasshoppers comment " "pre-stripped" project. Its more a case of repainting a lot of parts and bolting it back together. I also have most of the bits. Others have undertaken far more difficult restorations (ie Adrian and Jims' Shermans rebuilt from range wrecks)". My hat goes off to the guys who can rebuild something from nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankrs Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Hi All, My first post on this forum - an introduction soon. I agree with what everyone is saying here and I particularly agree with 'The Bedford Boys' point of view. In our case my Father and I have bought junk, and bit by bit at that, primarily because 1) we didn't have the money to splash out; 2) we started 'late' so opportunities for complete items were missed or didn't exist; 3) we each have a reasonable skill set so we're not intimidated by much; 4) and for me I'm more interested in reviving history and addressing the challenges - I mean I probably wouldn't go out and buy a green machine if I had the money. Please no Boo'ing. Yes it does cost more to restore a basket case - think of the labour, consumeables, injuries, and what it's cost for 20+ years of storage!!! But also some machines have appreciated incredibly but you couldn't hang your hat on that. Regarding percentage of originality - I believe that partial reproduction is a fair thing. I don't agree with the idea of someone gathering a swag of identical vehicles and using all original bits in one and scrapping the remainder! Someone else misses out on having a go. So long as the percentage of originality is quoted (and that should especially be in the event of 'sale time'), and that a manufactured part is historically relevant then I think no problem. Regards Alex McDougall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 All in good time, Dave. I don't understand the assumption you don't care for the thing either. It's sheeted up and that's what matters. M And I am pig sick of every Tom , Dick & Harry wandering into the yard and all but demanding that the vehicle be sold to them as it is presently sitting unused and ought to be with somebody who cares for it more than we do . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambo1969 Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Depends on how much money you have I suppose..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedford Boys Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Thinking about Bugattis, I beleive there are more racing Bugattis about than were made as people used just a few parts and fabricated the rest as their value was so great. I see what you are saying there, but I don't believe this could happen with the vast majority of MV's. So many MV's have been melted down for scrap metal over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Not sure in terms of numbers but there seems to be a healthy (or unhealthy depending on your viewpoint) movement of military vehicles being built up from the glovebox door Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzkpfw-e Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Oh dear, more Threadomancy from me! The Bug fetched a whopping 260,500 Euros at auction. On the subject of there being more of certain cars now, than were made, there's a Bug in a Japanese collector's possession, with the same chassis number as the one pulled from the lake! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7094129/Bugatti-wreck-too-valuable-to-restore.html It's also "worth" more as a wreck than if restored. Mind you, I'd guess that few restored HMVs would turn a profit for their owners if sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Mind you, I'd guess that few restored HMVs would turn a profit for their owners if sold. Oh, I don't know...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzkpfw-e Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) If you can go from this To this Then nothing's impossible given the will, time & money. This is the starting point for the (ex?) Flick Collection's Panther G If anyone knows where it is now & has photos, that wouldbe of great interest! Edited November 5, 2010 by Pzkpfw-e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 There seems to be something wrong with the pics in this post. Apart from that when the Panther that was enventually bought by Herr Flick was found in 1977 it wasn't in bad condition- it had been used a MVEE FVRDE and had never been a range target or subjected to explosive tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 hmm I am simply amazed at how much we can achieve these days...I know we have better equipment and knowledge than they did 50 or 60 years ago or more but it is still fantastic to see a wreck restored... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 hmm I am simply amazed at how much we can achieve these days...I know we have better equipment and knowledge than they did 50 or 60 years ago or more but it is still fantastic to see a wreck restored... Better equipment maybe,better knowledge no.There's an awful lot of trades and skills slowly dying off with time. modern machinery has taken over from skilled workmanship, and if you actively restore vehicles you will realise this. Anything can be restored if you have that skill or you can find someone who has ! Rob.....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 Better equipment maybe,better knowledge no.There's an awful lot of trades and skills slowly dying off with time.modern machinery has taken over from skilled workmanship, and if you actively restore vehicles you will realise this. Anything can be restored if you have that skill or you can find someone who has ! Rob.....................rnixartillery. Hmm yes good point too, the skills are being lost to a degree but we understand metals, machines and engineering so much more than they did 50 years ago...we have machines that can do the work of many skilled workmen but I fully understand that in some cases we have to re-learn old skills to restore an old machine... But it still amazes me just what can be done by those dedicated...I know it shouldn't really but it does...the human race has always been resourceful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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