Oscarsborg, Norway

[martylee]

During a meeting with the management of our company I had the opportunity to visit the fortress at Oscarborg. This is where colonel Birger Eriksen saved the king and goverment, by sinking the Blücher. As part of the german plan Weserübung Norway was invaded on April 9th. Although the first minor battle took place in the late hours of the 8th. Norwegian guard ship Pol III was sunk after taking up battle with the german fleet. Signals where sent to Oscarsborg where they could prepare their totally fresh and untrained crew. The decicion to fire upon the ships where taken when they cruised into the narrow Oslo fjord with all lanterns dark. The brave Colonel Eriksen without contact with the high command, had to check their standing orders in case of such events. It said "to open fire". They fired batteries both on the island where the fort is situated and from the shoreline around. Among these guns were 280 mm guns. Of these there were 3 guns but only crew enough to man two of them. The crew manning these guns had just arrived at the fort and had little training. The Blücher caught fire from the guns firing. On the island there were also a torpedo battery uknown to the germans. It was torpedos from this battery that finally sank the Blûcher. The fort surrendered after heavy bombardment and air attacks on april 10th. Then the fort had been bombed for 9 straight hours.

 

The inner fort.

Inside the inner fort.

 

Marty

Edited June 13, 2010 by martylee

[martylee]

The Colonel himself.

After the war evil tunges argued that the fort was surrendered too early, but with the intense bombing and the ill-prepared state of the national defense the fault lay with others. Unfortunately we see that a lot of those did infact put up a good fight was critiseized during and after the war. General Fleischer who indeed did a good job in the early weeks of the war in the northern part of Norway also received rather bad treatment.

 

The enemy.

 

The monuments.

 

Marty

[martylee]

The big guns, 280 mm.

The view form the guns.

 

 

Marty

[martylee]

Other guns.

 

Marty

[martylee]

The commandants quarters.

 

Other buildings.

 

Marty

Edited June 13, 2010 by martylee

[martylee]

The museum inside the fort.

 

 

Marty

[martylee]

 

To end this report, I'd like to recommend a visit here. Especially during the summer. You have to take a ferry from either Drøbak or Aker Brygge in Oslo. You can stay at the hotel on the island and there's also a Spa there. It's a great place to picnic, so bring the whole family. I'll do that this summer.

The guides there are great and you can also visit the torpedo battery.

 

 

Marty

[private mw]

thanks for sharing looks a great place ,:-)

[Tony B]

Must vist your country, the third gun down looks like a 60 pound Whitworth Rifled Muzzle loader intresting, and Whithead torpedoes.

[martylee]

Must vist your country, the third gun down looks like a 60 pound Whitworth Rifled Muzzle loader intresting, and Whithead torpedoes.

 

You're right about the torpedoe! I will see if I can name the different guns later tonight. Have close up of the different guns.

 

 

Marty

[Tony B]

You're right about the torpedoe! I will see if I can name the different guns later tonight. Have close up of the different guns.

 

 

Marty

Thnaks Marty, more pictures please. :flowers:

[steveo578]

Tony B

Must vist your country, the third gun down looks like a 60 pound Whitworth Rifled Muzzle loader intresting.........

It's an 1868 10.5inch RML Armstong gun and was the original armament to the Norwegian 1869 Skorpionen class, Ericson style Monitors - Thrudvang, Mjølner, Skorpionen and the close relative Thor. the 10.5inch RML was also the main armament of the 1874-78 Vale Class 250ton gunboats - Vale, Brage, Nor, Uller and Vidar. Whether the gun shown in the photo was a spare or whether the guns were used a coastal guns after their removal from the warships I don't know, the Vale class were not disarmed until about 1910- (making the guns distinctly outdated) when they were converted to other duties some were used as minelayers, but the monitors were disarmed eariler.

[alan turner (RIP)]

That would make it a piece from the Armstrong factory at Woolwich Arsenal then.

[steveo578]

I would have thought they were out of Elswick along with the mountings.

[Tony B]

That type of gun got about. The brech loading type were used on HMS Warrior and black Prince, and as said breech and RML (Rifled Muzzle Loader) for costal mounts. Two brech loaders are on the Cenotaph in St Helier Jersey, so guess how I recognised the type? :-D The Armstrong of this type were constructed of a number of tubes, the main being steel then wrought iron shrunk on. Armstrong made breech loaders, but reverted to muzzle loaders as the Britsh Goverment of the time decided muzzle loaders were cheaper. Sound familiar? So the muzzle loader you have in Norway may be later than most of the breech loaders.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Tony B

[steveo578]

Tony B

......... Two brech loaders are on the Cenotaph in St Helier Jersey, so guess how I recognised the type?

The Breach loaders at the Jersey Cenotaph are 7in 82cwt Mk1 Armstrong RBL -there should be a 7inch 6.5ton Woolich made RML at Elizabeth Castle. All these guns tend to look similar but vary considerably - as an example the 7inch Armstrongs under manufacture when the Government were persuaded by Woolich that RBLs were unsuitable for service -particularly with the navy, were finished as 64pdr RMLs.

 

 

but reverted to muzzle loaders as the Britsh Goverment of the time decided muzzle loaders were cheaper. Sound familiar?

The cost was not the main criteria, there were problems with power loss because orburation was not developed (this was prior to Elswick cup and system de Bange), added to problems with perceived weaknesses in the weapons requiring a lower charge,- unfortunaetly the Woolich people were the primary gun examiners for the government- so had a investment in preventing Armstrong guns becoming the prefered type. In defence of Woolich, Armstrong guns (both BL and RML) were built to a price rather than quality and were prone to failure as the bands did not interlock -which Woolich weapons did.

 

The RMLs were extermely wide spread and many still exist notably in the former Dominions, Sydney/ Queensland and Quebec have some beautiful examples and of course many still exist in forts around the southern coast of England form Pylmouth to Dover.

 

So the muzzle loader you have in Norway may be later than most of the breech loaders

.

As a type the 10.5in at Oscarborg was manufactured starting 1/1/1868 (In Britain new BL guns were officially discontinued in 1864) so was nearly ten years later than the first Armstrong RBLs and contemporary to Krupp RBLs -but it was a massive arms race, -at the same time Ericson the Swedish/US monitor designer had sent to Sweden two 15 inch Dahlgren smooth bore muzzle loaders firing a 450pdr shot (they were weapons to be fitted to the Union Canonicus class of monitors but had become obsolete). however they were never used as a naval weapon and probably not as a coastal/fortress gun- both still exist.

 

I believe there are more than one 10.5 RML at Oscarborg one having been disabled by a Haft-Hohllandung or similar hollow charge device.

 

For further information on Victorian era cannons see

 

http://www.palmerstonforts.org.uk

Edited June 18, 2010 by steveo578
addition in italics

[Tony B]

the Jersey ones. I have ben told they were used as the models for the fibreglass replicas on HMS Warrior. When did the 280mm get fitted. And who built those? I know the Channel island Occupation Society have astron links with their Norwegian counterparts.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Tony B

[robin craig]

what a wonderful governemnt you have to have allowed such items to have been preserved and not cut up for scrap and denial that history took place.

 

Are the 105 guns used for salutes or something?

 

R

[steveo578]

robin craig

..........and not cut up for scrap and denial that history took place.

 

but there are some nice fortress guns at the Citidel in Quebec and at Fort York Toronto

 

Are the 105 guns used for salutes or something?

The M2s are probably maintained for Loyal Salutes and to mark Constitiution Day 17th May and Independance day 7th June.

 

Tony B

...... When did the 280mm get fitted.

the Krupp 280mm guns (which look like 30cal) were fitted in 1893, an earlier Krupp gun a 305mm 25cal of 1878 was supplied in 1880 as the first of six guns but due to economic-supply problems the installation stalled and re-equipment did not resume until 1893 but even then only three further guns were supplied. There are two empty bays in the South facing battery -in 1893 these were probably used for a pair of 10.5in RMLs that were in addition to the three in the eastern battery -which are still in position -although they are no doubt re-fitted as the 10.5mm RMLs were taken out of service after 1906. There were also 4 Armstrong RMLs opposite the eastern battery in the Veisvingbatteriet near Drobak- although 3 of these were described as 223mm RMLs which is a strange calibre.

 

I find it odd that the Armstrong RMLs were purchased by Norway even though they were in Naval service -Krupp supplied excellent M1867 to Helsinki in 1870. No doubt the actuality is out there somewhere in a Norwegian text.

 

Tony: do you have any pictures of the pair of 13cm Belgian howitzers that were dug up in Victoria park Gernsey in 1978.

Steve

Edited June 20, 2010 by steveo578
addition

[Tony B]

Steve try this lot. They probably did it. http://www.festungguernsey.supanet.com/

[martylee]

Well, I do believe that I promised a few more photos...

 

 

 

Marty

[steveo578]

Excellent photos, I wonder if the grey thing behind the german modified 7.5cm M1901 field gun is the receiver of a 30.5cm Bofors M12?

 

Anyway great stuff

[Tony B]

thanks Marty, more the merrier!

[Natter]

 

Excellent photos, I wonder if the grey thing behind the german modified 7.5cm M1901 field gun is the receiver of a 30.5cm Bofors M12?

If I understand your reference, the answer is no. It's the aft part of a 21" torpedotube - probably from one of the coast-artillery's decomissioned torpedobatteries (I'm not sure if this particular one was of german or holland origin, but it's a WW2 survivor nevertheless - having been in service until the mid 90's).

[steveo578]

Natter

Thanks for posting that information shame the 30.5cm bofors may not have survived,

 

regards

 

steve