To wet your appetities

[Tony B]

From an impecable scource. A Char B used by the Wermacht, buried in a tunnel. The vehicle is known to have been driven in and the tunnel collapsed behind it. The guy who fired the charge has confirmed the vehicles existence. Initial survey is promising for recovery. More when I get back:cool2:

[private mw]

ooooooooooh keep us informed :shocked:

[Tony B]

it's a bit political the situation but I will be able to post the 'open' info when I get back next week.

Been on the BBC TV tonight! and no not 'Most Wanted'

[AndyFowler]

it's a bit political the situation but I will be able to post the 'open' info when I get back next week.

Been on the BBC TV tonight! and no not 'Most Wanted'

 

You must be a political pundit then Tony ! Nothing else on !

[antarmike]

I hate to do this yet again but it is "Whet your appetites....."

 

Whet = sharpen or Hone as in whetstone.

Edited May 7, 2010 by antarmike

[fesm_ndt]

I had to look up what a Char B is/was :blush:

 

I also would have spelt whet incorrectly :blush: So interesting to know that

 

But in a nutshell get the shovels moving and camera ready

[ferretfixer]

I hate to do this yet again but it is "Whet your appetites....."

 

Whet = sharpen or Hone as in whetstone.

 

This sound so exciting. I nearly 'Whet' my Pants!

[antarmike]

This sound so exciting. I nearly 'Whet' my Pants!

 

You can wet your pants or you can wet your whistle, but the one thing you can't wet is an appetite....

[AndyFowler]

You can wet your pants or you can wet your whistle, but the one thing you can't wet is an appetite....

 

What if I pour a bucket of water over my head when I feel hungry ? Only works as part of a calorie controlled diet of course !

[Stone]

Wow, good luck!

 

Stone

[eddy8men]

i love that kind of stuff, just wish it was me doing the digging

[ajmac]

I know it all depands on the type of rock and how deep but the conditions in tunnels can be perfect for corrosion, I doubt it will be driven out :-D

[Tony B]

Hwhen you lot have quite finished! Be careful I may go sulk.:cool2: Right, the vehicle is in a tunnel in Gurnersey. the german's brought about twenty five Char b tanks over, i haven't got the books hady to check numbers. Some were kept as gun tanks, some had a 75mm gun fitted as SPG, and three were converted to flame throwers.

 

In 1945 one was driven into a tunnel, which was subsequently collappsed by the British forces.

Current situation is that a drain access has ben found undr the collapse, a tool has been made to clear the track so a camera and magnatometer can be fed in to get an internal survey.

The fly in the ointment is that the tunnel is close proximity to a housing estate. Concerns have been rasied about the tunnel collapsing. Channel Island Occupation socoiety Gurnersy are currently trying to get the problem sorted. There is a chance of funding for the project if it can be definitley proved thr beast exists. http://www.occupied.guernsey.net/index.htm

[steveo578]

Many years ago a story went around that two tanks had been found somewhere in the Channel Islands but it turned out to be a misunderstanding the tanks in question were fuel tanks buried in a hill side to supply a generator for a Command site.

 

I thought all the Char B 1bis were returned to France save one that went to Bovington, at least all those that were capable of moving, there are as you know photos of them being loaded onto LCT-LST with the aid of a D6 bulldozer. I suppose a disabled -beyond easy recovery tank could have been entombed, certainly in the UK just after the end of WW2 AFVs that were automotively defective were refused by REME-RASC disposal units leading to the odd vehicle being dumped in quarries and even hedges.

 

There is very little evidence to what happened to the R35 SPGs although again there is some reports of them being dumped off Jersey, so possibly one of those.

 

As to the geological conditions, many Channel Island tunnels are into mud-rock, highly unstable and very wet.

 

Anyway look forward to seeing what you find, I'm so excited I can hardly wait- its better than a trip to disney land:nut:

 

Steve

[fesm_ndt]

If you run into any dificulties with the camera equipment let me know as I can see this as a good marketing ploy for a few companies.

 

Just need to know how far in you have to go and how big the hole.

 

Olympus would make some of the best remote buggies as there is a few quirks in this, ie dragging the umbilical. Anyway if you need any advice on that side let me know.

[LarryH57]

In 2008, I went to Jersey on holiday and the Bovington Char B was on loan to the German Underground Hospital. Is it still there or back in the UK, as it needed a bit of TLC when I saw it.

[steveo578]

Tony B

......the german's brought about twenty five Char b tanks over, i haven't got the books hady to check numbers. Some were kept as gun tanks, some had a 75mm gun fitted as SPG, and three were converted to flame throwers.

 

 

Just to clarify where did the infomation that some Char B1 bis were fitted with 75mm gun was this a local mod. in the Channel Islands? the only Char B SPG I am aware of is the 105mm LFH 18 fitted to 24 tanks and probably lost on the Eastern front. The standard Char B1 & B1 bis had a 75mm gun in the hull, there were quite a few flame throwers around the Paras knocked one out at Arnhem.

 

Steve

[Tony B]

Just to clarify where did the infomation that some Char B1 bis were fitted with 75mm gun was this a local mod. in the Channel Islands? the only Char B SPG I am aware of is the 105mm LFH 18 fitted to 24 tanks and probably lost on the Eastern front. The standard Char B1 & B1 bis had a 75mm gun in the hull, there were quite a few flame throwers around the Paras knocked one out at Arnhem.

 

Steve

There are photos of the Char B SPG in existence taken in the CI. The eveidence for the vehicles existence is very good. Negotiations are taking place over a full survey at the moment. As soon as I know more and am cleared to release information I'll do so.

[private mw]

great work well done :-)

[ford 369]

Many years ago a story went around that two tanks had been found somewhere in the Channel Islands but it turned out to be a misunderstanding the tanks in question were fuel tanks buried in a hill side to supply a generator for a Command site.

 

I thought all the Char B 1bis were returned to France save one that went to Bovington, at least all those that were capable of moving, there are as you know photos of them being loaded onto LCT-LST with the aid of a D6 bulldozer. I suppose a disabled -beyond easy recovery tank could have been entombed, certainly in the UK just after the end of WW2 AFVs that were automotively defective were refused by REME-RASC disposal units leading to the odd vehicle being dumped in quarries and even hedges.

 

There is very little evidence to what happened to the R35 SPGs although again there is some reports of them being dumped off Jersey, so possibly one of those.

 

As to the geological conditions, many Channel Island tunnels are into mud-rock, highly unstable and very wet.

 

Anyway look forward to seeing what you find, I'm so excited I can hardly wait- its better than a trip to disney land:nut:

 

Steve

 

 

at least 2 tanks were discarded in a Guernsey tunnel rather than being returned to France but were subsequently removed by the Upham company during post war scrap drives

Nigel

[Tony B]

great work well done :-)

Not me mate! Gurnersey Fortress Group. I just happned to talk to the right people.

[steveo578]

ford 369

at least 2 tanks were discarded in a Guernsey tunnel rather than being returned to France but were subsequently removed by the Upham company during post war scrap drives

Nigel

 

 

Hi Nigel

 

While not discounting your post it has remarkable similarities to the first paragraph of my post#14, in that "two tanks were buried" (being fuel tanks burial protected them from enemy action). Why I am skeptical about some of the stories of burials of WW2 AFVs (and I know that some are true) is that I spent some time in the Channel Islands mainly on the Guernsey in the 1970s and the local authorities had problems with tunnels. If I recall correctly the tunnel near the victoria hotel was a major problem as were others, never being properly sealed the tunnel became a target for youths, causing a tragic incident that made the States act, the tunnel was cleared, having been used as a dump by the British Army for small size equipment such as helmets and gas mask containers, another nearbye one was used as a dump for barbed wire -but that did not attract much attention - I wonder why:-|. The stuff was dumped in trenches dug in local fields and covered over, most of it was pretty crap by then anyway as I said previously the mudstone strata in many tunnels makes them quite wet.

 

Of the other tunnels I remember, the Sur l'eglies (Under the Church) was pretty empty apart from water and a couple of light horse drawn mess wagens, the famous Mirus battery was regularly used as a dump for old burnt out cars and again was heavily flooded but was still open as late as 1976. There were also quite a few small tunnels about 5metres deep let into the hills and cliffs overlooking the coast which were positions for mobile guns such as 7.5 FK 16 and french equivelents, but guess what they were always empty, and it must have been a real effort to get them in and remove them in 1945. However I can recall that there was still a strong point near the "pontins" camp on Jersey that still had an emplaced FT turret and a 2cm naval A/A gun and shield was once dug out of a hedge. I'll see if I can find the photos- which are very poor because instamatics were very poor.

 

While I am the first person to say that "hope springs eternal" in that some-one might find a missed piece of equipment- I wouldn't hold my breath, as to the story that this or that was removed by these guys or the other, -its like UFOs why aren't there any photos? we are taking of a holiday islands with umpteen chemists and tourism shops (even pre war) and unlike the brave channel islanders who actually took photos of german stuff during WW2 -and could have paid with their own and their families lives there was certainly no such danger in the 1950s and 1960s.

 

This does not mean I doubt Tony B recent post, I have no reason to, he will have done the research I'm sure. I am still very curious about the 7.5cm gun on the B1 bis as there are stories that 10.5cm leFH 18/auf GW B2(f) were taken to the Channel Islands, I would actually like to be prooved wrong another example of Adolfs super weapons cobbled together from french scrap would delight me.

 

Steve

[Tony B]

Steve, the 'tunnel incident' was in Jersey, HO2 in 1962. Two children died after entering the tunnel and lighting a fire. They were asphiciated by CO. Yes, one concern is subsidence.

My scource has spocken to the man who originally did the work in 1945. That is what has sparked the survey. As for photos, they are copyright so you'll have to go to these links http://www.thisisjersey.co.uk/hmd/

Edited May 12, 2010 by Tony B

[steveo578]

Tony

 

As I said I have no reason to doubt your source- especially as you are talking directly to some-one involved,

 

As to my confusion between Jersey and Guersey my memory is obviously not as good as I thought, I remember getting a bollocking aged about 12 when I got into the large coastal OP tower on the North coast of Guernsey (very similar to the one at the battery for 14.5cm guns at Noirpoint in Jersey) by using a length of rope and going in through the lower OP slit, it was probably then I was made aware of the kids being killed in a tunnel, but I recall work being done in Guernsey in the 1970s to clear, close and landscape a tunnel near St Sampson, obviously any efforts were made on those near the population centres, I suppose now they are all near population centres.

 

Steve

 

I've looked at the link you posted and the tanks are what I would expect Standard Char B1 bis battle tanks and the flame thrower tanks

the Renault 4.7cm Pak (t) auf Pz Kfw 35(f) and the Renault Ft. There was suposed to be a FT dumped in a lake in Alderney. could find anything on this recent discovery- I would think bearing in mind the condition of the 4.7cm SPG in 1945 that if anything was buried it could be one of these. The SPG on Char B1 I was blathering about is this one

Edited May 13, 2010 by steveo578
correction term Flame thrower for ft

[Tony B]

No offence meant mate. Just back from the Rock, got in this am at 06:00 B*** drive back with roadworks, typing brain a bit slow. You know what polotics are like in the Island. The easy way to settle the argument would be bore a hole from the top, and drop a camera. Trouble is land owner is seeing pound notes (Yes, they still use Pound notes in the Islands) so acess is via drain. That has block in it, but a tool has been made to work through. The tunnel under the church has been partially re-opened. Again the tunnels cross boundaries. Some land owners are fine others are not The CIOS 2010 REVIEW has more details, just trying to get hold of it.