NickAbbott Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Can anyone tell me the purpose that this crane would've been used for? It's fitted to a Matador, but is not a recovery crane - there are no plates on it to identify it, and I believe the crane was fitted during military service, but I'm not really sure what it would've been used for. The jib is the full length of the rear body, when in the lowered position (as in the pictures), and sticks out about 3 foot beyond the body at the back. When raised it seems to pivot at the A frame on the rear of the load bed, and the jib stands upright. This is achieved by attaching a winding handle to a small winch, which slides the jib along a steel channel on the body, raising the top of the jib. The Matadors winch is used for raising and lowering things, and runs around an extra pulley on the tailboard. Any ideas welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recymech66 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Engine lift........probably, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeileen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 What about moving timber? because ive seen something similar in France used in a forest. Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morris C8 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 To lift Bombs Ect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woa2 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Is the Matador Army or RAF? If Army, my guess is for Tank engine changing as the crane looks very substantial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 If it is military then its most likely a bomb service truck, it would have insufficient lift clearance for tank engine changing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) Am I reading the picture correctly, and there is a pulley fitted under the tailgate, so that the main winch rope feeds over the head of the jib? If those are guy ropes layiong slack on top of the jib, this only seems to be a travelling position, I suggest the bottom of the jib is slid to the back of the guide on the floor, the guy ropes will become tight as the top of the jib is raised to its working position. I guess it is a timber crane?? Edited December 30, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) What line of busines was Tim Nicholson in? John Harrington has it listed as a breakdown. Although the crane might be military I am not convinced it is a military convertion or the Matador/crane combination has any military pedigree. Edited December 31, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickAbbott Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 The Matador was ex Army, and I was told it has some history with the Royal Engineers, but that may not be correct, as I have yet to research the history. You are correct, I don't think the crane is intended to be used in the position it is shown in, and the winch wire is used to lift with. When the crane is raised, I don't think that it has a particularly long reach (due to the shape of it), but it possibly goes up to between 16-20 foot from the ground. I don't think the design of the crane would make it suitable for timber work, and it is far too well made compared to some timber conversions I've seen. From what I gather the crane was fitted when in military use. Tim Nicholson bought it from someone who was going to to convert it for timber work but didn't, and Tim used it briefly as a recovery vehicle with the crane in the position shown in the pictures I believe. I'm hoping to remove the crane during the restoration and return the rear body to original, but if the crane had some special use, I might be persuded to keep it fitted instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Pressumably the hand winch on the frame is to move the bottom end of the jib along the guide, to raise the jib? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickAbbott Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Yes you're right Mike - the winding handle is attached through a hole in the tailboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 If that is Tim's old Matador, are you planning to keep the petrol engine in it? (Tim told me it was the only survivor and had been earmarked for the Norway campaign). I was riding around in the cab of that vehicle as a nipper in '87 while Tim pulled down trees damaged in the great storm. Tim is still a friend of mine (and a great man to know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) The curved boom does look like it has come from a Series 4 Ward LaFrance, which would definitely point to it having been fitted by the military. Fitting that crane on a Matador would have made a much better recovery vehicle as the Ward engines are pretty gutless for towing and could bog down fairly easily. The crane on the Series 4 was mostly mandraulic, so would have been easy to install as it has been on the Matador. The series 5 Ward had a powered crane so awas a far more useful/useable vehicle. Edited December 31, 2009 by Grasshopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickAbbott Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Grasshopper, thanks for that info, do you have any pictures of one fitted to the series 4? The Matador still has the petrol engine fitted, and we are planning to keep it. I'm not aware of any other petrol Matadors either, so I think this vehicle is unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 It certainly is! Tim had a penchant for unusual vehicles. He had the petrol Matador, a Tilling Stevens petrol-electric bus that he restored (now in a museum), he has an AEC double decker with an 8.8 diesel engine (Tim is the only person in living memory to have rebuilt an AEC 8.8) and he also has (and got working correctly) a Routemaster bus with experimental Citroen hydragas suspension fitted. I should also mention the Hardy 4x4 chassis (forerunner to the Matador) that he still has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Can't find a picture of a Series 4 at the moment, hopefully NOS will post one as he owns one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Here are a couple of pictures of Wards with curved booms. We believe that the crane on the matador was fitted by REME (according to Tim). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Not for suspended tow is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) This version of the crane was not very good for towing as the lift point was way out the back. On the series 5 crane, you could move the pulley sheaves to a position closer to the rear of the truck. We reckon that Wards would not have done much towing in this way with smaller vehicles as the cranes would be too useful for pack changes and the winch for heavy recovery work. The Diamond T wreckers would have probably been used much more for that sort of work. To this end we have not figured out how to suspended tow a jeep behind a Ward using WW2 equipment. If the jeep has an A frame fitted, the ring on the frame is too small to fit on the trucks tow hitch (which is also too high for it). We could not figure out what gear to use on a GMC on suspended tow either. If a Ward were to suspend a GMC, they probably would not have bothered with an A frame and would just hang the vehicle off the back. Don't suppose they would have been too bothered what with there being a war going on! Also given the amount of Jeeps and GMC's around they would more than likely have been ditched when broke down and picked up by rear echelon units for repair. The Diamond T has a special extendable A frame for use when suspended towing. The length of this does not tie up with the hook lift positions on a Ward. The A frame on a Ward is massive and was used for recovering tanks. (We use a post war Holleybone which is lighter). Many Ward cranes used post war were cut down for recovery work. Conversely some used in reconstruction work were extended! The crane as fitted to the Matador in question is at a good length for suspended recoveries. It is believed that REME carried out the conversion. Edited December 31, 2009 by Grasshopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Clearly the booms could not have been that strong as they all seem to bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 On Wards it's not uncommon to see the crane tower bent backwards! Never seen a bent boom though. Mostly caused by using the crane to pull things instead of lifting with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Here are some details of the Series 4 boom. Note the lift can also be taken from the pulley further down jib - similar length to shorter booms. It looks the same - but if so those outer side plates have been added and bits removed. WLF boom channel is 7" x 2 1/8", and spaced 8" at base, 4" at top - that should decide it one way or other! AFAIK British Army Wards supplied during WW2 were all short straight booms (Series 2) - so if it was converted by Army, where did they get this boom come from? Very strange.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickAbbott Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thanks for posting those pictures - the boom on my Matador does look identical to the series 4 boom. The way it is supported is different, so the Matador one has probably been made from a selection of bits, rather than directly taking the bits from the Ward. Does the crane on the Ward move, or is it fixed in that position? I've been in touch with the REME Museum, and according to their records, REME did not mount any cranes on Matadors, unless it was done unofficially when the vehicle was over seas. As I don't know where the vehicle served (still waiting for the info from Deepcut), I'm still none the wiser as to when the crane was fitted or by who - so a bit further forward, but not far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 If in the Matador application, the winch rope comes up from the rear winch rollers, and over the pulley, there will be two lays of rope under tension pulling down on the end of the jib. In the original application, the winch rope feeds up the centre of the jib (putting the jib in compression lengthwise, nut not appliying a bending moment), before emerging over the pulley. There is therefore only one lay of rope in tension trying to bend the end of the jib down. This is a far more satisfactory situation than the Matador application. I would have thought a REME convertion would have been based on sound engineering principles, which clearly is not the case in the Matador application. It still strikes me as a timber contractors home made, back of a fag box convertion than a well thought out army mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I am led to believe the previous owner bought it from an army auction in that form. He is an old family friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.