phil munga Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 These are used as targets , Farmer was checking stock so I asked if could go allong to get a few pics ,,,, Do'nt know much when it comes to naming tracked vehicles , the first pic is one without tracks or engine number on hull FV469251/1 KL 256 , it had lots of holes in it about 3/4" so had took quite a few hits The next pics this one does'nt look to bad tracks ok engine still in 6 cylinder firing order but had 12 injecter pipes so maybe 2 for each pot ,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 They are Chieftains. They have 12 pistons, horizontally opposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 They are Chieftains. They have 12 pistons, horizontally opposed. Nope.:coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 "Six cylinder opposed pistons" is the correct description. The second and third pics look to be of a special project tank as it has the dummy turret fitted to simulate weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 "Six cylinder opposed pistons" is the correct description. Exactly, opposed piston is completely different to horizontally (or vertically) opposed. Typical examples include Junkers Jumo, Rootes TS3, Napier Deltic, K60 and L60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Ok I meant vertically, it was a long day! :sweat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) These two are somewhere in the Catterick area the second tank with "windsor turret" is a Khaled suspension test vehicle 99SP29 I think and the Chieftain possibly 02EB49 (although it too had a SP number) could be the former resident of Feldom 3d where both tanks were targets. There were also a number of trial FV432 (with W_ leter) and FV438 on Feldom until about 2000. Edited November 23, 2009 by steveo578 addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil munga Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 These two are somewhere in the Catterick area the second tank with "windsor turret" is a Khaled suspension test vehicle 99SP29 I think and the Chieftain possibly 02EB49 (although it too had a SP number) could be the former resident of Feldom 3d where both tanks were targets. There were also a number of trial FV432 (with W_ leter) and FV438 on Feldom until about 2000. These are within 6 miles of Catterick , there's been targets like this here for a long time ,I think there's some more just the main body that have been cut up , then filled with concrete , the ones above in the pics ones been hit lots but the other does not seem to show any signs of been hit ,, not sure of the name of the range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yep it is Feldom 3D:). From the late 1990s the plan was to clear this area and use it for general training, the first thing that went were 432s of various styles and mks and Scarcens these were probably realocated to ranges south west of Catterick garrison towards Leyburn around moor rd A6108 and Range road. Although it is possible hard targets may have been moved to a closer range such as that off Stoneman lane to the north of Feldom ranges heading towards Gayles village. Around 2001 a plan to bury the heavily concreted targets was started and a Sherman and a Churchill which were closest to the firing point were buried, (see the Churchill tank thread). In 2002 the remaining WW2 tank targets were stripped of usable parts, mainly the tracks engine covers air outlets. And later between 2002 and 2007 external metal and turrets were removed from the concrete targets. These targets were a Sherman 1, three churchills (two Mk7 and one Mk4 75) and an M10C It is surprising to me that the two chieftain types still remain, I would have thought they would have been re-alocated by now- 99SP29 was delivered without its transmission. 06sp78.jpg 06sp78 2.jpg For information there are some "abandoned" Chieftains including a metor engined trial vehicle in one of the mothballed bases in North Yorkshire. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 hi steve you may have just made my day.I'm looking for a churchill to play with in the future.do you know the location of the buried tanks and are they in any restorable condition,even cosmetically,i found 6 on warcop range,2 with turrets,i don't know much but maybe it's feasible to get one together from that lot.as for them being concreted that might be an advantage all you'd need was a breaker and a coupler of big poles (jani & marius)job done.seriously though any information would be greatfully received.many thanks eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil munga Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 steveo578 this seems to add up , going by the pics you've put up , think removing the concrete would not be to easy , with lots of holes in them now and the rear ends cut out to save the transmision ON ONE , The last time I was at feldom range before I took these pics was in the late eightys , and there was three or four target tanks ,, also used to go up on the other ranges to whatch the winter rally stages about the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 eddy8men Sorry to get your hopes up but I think you might have miss read my post. I refered to a post #53 in Churchill gallery by RNIXARTILLERY one of his posted photos reproduced here. This tank an early-mid production Mk7 was buried in 2000-2001 along with a Sherman 1 but as stated, in his #53 thread it was exhumed in 2007? and the turret removed before it was reburied. If you want the position use Goole earth map, log in on Gayles village and find FELDOM LANE at full maginfication you will see this tank in its hole to the left of Feldom Lane and the stripped remains of the other tanks, along with the two SP Chieftain mentioned in this thread. What happened to the turret I don't know, also asked what happened to the Sherman (both are particular interest to me) but I have not heard anything more. As I mentioned the Mk4 75 prior to 1999-2000 was a viable proposition as it was largely intact and was only partially filled with concrete. churchill%20013.jpg Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Phil munga When I was "officially" at Fledom, the retiring civilian senior range attendant said that they had previously cut up a concrete filled target with great difficulty (on what exact range and what type of vehicle was not mentioned) and could not interest anyone in removing the remaining (five) targets which were surplus as LAW 80 weapons tended to cause concrete spall which had been judged a hazzard. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Steve, the Sherman has gone for restoration. As you know, it is in pretty bad shape and needs a complete new glacis plate which has yet to be sourced. I'm trying to get the owner to hold out for a DV front as it is a very early, rivetted hull M4 but as any Sherman glacis plates are hard to find, he will probably obtain whatever he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Adrian Thanks for the info, I suppose all the old Sherman V with vison slots on STA have gone? I assume the feldom Sherman had a sharp final drive armour as I could not see any evidence of a three piece final drive when I looked at it. I suppose the turret will have to be replaced too- which is a shame in a way as the casting is a bit strange around the gunners periscope. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Steve, I've just had a re-read of the Churchill thread and seen your questions about the Sherman. It is an early M4, DV and rivetted lower hull, remanufactured with full applique, late single piece nose and spaced out suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 A new turret has been procured together with a new gun assembly. SPTA is probably the only likely source of a glacis in the UK but even that is unlikely as only a small number of the M4A4s there were DV and most if not all have long gone. Coupled with almost impossible access and restrictions make it a probable non starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) Hi Adrian I reckoned it to be an early M4 rebuilt (remanufactured) probably at Evansville, because of the concrete I could not work out whether the hull had a full E9 spaced out suspension or just extended end connectors as fitted to M4A3E2 jumbo. The turret must have been changed during remanufacture as it was a later type without pistol port and had the re-enforced turret front- that the thickening included the gunners periscope area caused some thought- I ve never seen one like this before and of course the cupola Things must be getting desparate that this one was recovered. It is strange that this tank and the M4 Hybrid with small hatches both remanufactured none MADP vehicles have survived. regards Steve Edited November 25, 2009 by steveo578 spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Yes it is odd what survives. I suspect the Feldom M4 was sent to the UK as an example of what was then on offer with regards to Sherman. The intention to phase out non UK tanks put paid to any more being supplied. If so, there is probably a file on it somewhere at Bovington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 "From the late 1990s the plan was to clear this area and use it for general training, the first thing that went were 432s of various styles and mks and Scarcens these were probably realocated to ranges south west of Catterick garrison towards Leyburn around moor rd A6108 and Range road. Although it is possible hard targets may have been moved to a closer range such as that off Stoneman lane to the north of Feldom ranges heading towards Gayles village". I was responsible for removing the three saracens and five 432 hulks from the range in the mid nineties when it had been de-classified,all went for scrap. The only thing remaining of any real interest is the buried churchill which is now minus its turret but it is Very badly shot up and full of concrete,the few odd tank hulks on the surface have been completely stripped of any salvagable parts. Rob............................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 rnixartillery Rob Thanks for the clarification, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 eddy8men I've posted some photos of Warcop and Feldom Churchills from a time before they were broken up on the Thread Churchill Gallery. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Hi Adrian Many years ago I sent photos of T270129 to Bovington in response to an article in Track link about LINK marking which T270129 still had. According to Peter Brown it was on a contract card of a mixed batch of Sherman 1 and V in the later half of 1944. It is similar to T263482 which is a Firefly often seen in books was also a remanufactured Sherman 1 with vision slots covered with appliqué armour. Tanks like the 105mm M4 HVSS at Bovington and its sibling that was targeted at Kircudbright and the 76mm M4A2 HVSS were more likely technology samples rather than a sales pitch, as even in early 1944 the British knew once Lend lease ended there would be no more US tanks even if they wanted them, hence the concerted effort to anglicise the vehicle park with types such as Comet, Centurion, Neptune, Terrapin and even replacements for the Jeep. I don’t have copy of link marks at the moment but have a phot of the stencil (it may not still visible after burial) I suppose when the paint is stripped the original US serial might still be there. Another picture of the damage to the tank. What years of Charlie G, and LAW72 and other weapons have done, a really bad case of steel worm if this can be sorted it certainly will raise the moral of restorers everywhere. stencil.jpg T270129.jpg Regards Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 The unusual thing with this Sherman compared to the others the British Army were receiving at the time is the spaced out suspension. The E9 kit was only released in August 44 with 1000 tanks being modded and 1000 sets of kits for field fitting being manufactured. The question is was this tank supplied as such in which case it must have been an unusual example, I can't recall seeing any pictures of similar vehicles in British service, or was it a field kit fitted here? I have pics of the link markings and T number but they are not mine to post here. They are fairly faint now anyway so not very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 (edited) Hi Adrian Just bit of steve rambling:- Possibly the E9 conversion was the reason it was not converted to Firefly,although there is some evidence of conversion of late War conversions for the US army. I would think this tank would be used for tests an E9 is a good subsitute for an E8 in loading,bridging, recovery and mobility tests, but I doubt we will live long enough to see the release of the MEE FVRDE documents and as to other establishments I doubt anyone could find REME or the Christchurch bridging establishment documents. The arrival of this tank in UK is not at all impossible the last Sherman Vs were despatched from October 1944 and that is concurent with the release of Sherman 1 remanufactured from Evansville. The only other E9 remanufacture I know of was from Montreal much later and was for M4A3 and M36. As regard other E9s photos show a number used in tests -again it replicates a E8 well. I posted a photo on "turret off at last" showing a BB tank and I wonder if the M4hybrid show is the same tank, it certainly has all the pointers small hatches -very rare,applique turret (can't see the tracks). An M4hybrid on the West coast in the fall of 1944 when trials of the BB were on-going. I am sure at least some BBs landed on Okinawa were 105mm tank with HVSS. Steve Edited November 27, 2009 by steveo578 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.