Amphibi boy Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Also about withams, there are more leylands being released than fodens at the moment, but if you do want one please :stop: "VIEWING IS ESSENTIAL" as photos can lie! we looked at one, it had just come from refurb, done a few miles, them ended up in a ditch, just a bent cab! it worked as i tested it!:-D but im sure crouch had that one, we were just out bid! we have one now though, but its a rare one, with extra mountings, radio points and internal armour! (i've not seen one the same before) :shocked: but if you do get one, make sure you have a good recovery plan/cover, as they wernt the most reliable, i was allways getting called out, mostly gearboxes, propshafts and another favourite, engine top hoses seemed to blow! and another problem we allways had on excercise, was the right hand mirror!!! we ran out of stock once, so many getting broken, slapping other trucks! but i think loggy driver will agree, they were fun to drive, once repaired, if they were short manned or the vermin (oops sorry, "vehicle mechanic" ) didnt have a H.G.V. i would take them out to test, and they do shift! at the lights you would beat most things up to 50! it was great to pull up in the second lane at lights, the car to the left looking at you as some ignorant army driver, than to leave them sat there when the lights go green! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 but if you do want one please :stop: "VIEWING IS ESSENTIAL" as photos can lie! we looked at one, it had just come from refurb, done a few miles, them ended up in a ditch, just a bent cab! Another thing to be aware of with a Leyland DROPS, is although it might have superficial damage on the bumper area, it could have more serious damage further back. We had one in for repair early on, that had had what looked like minor front end damage, happened on an airfield. Must have been shifting though, because the inertia had shunted the engine and gearbox forward, breaking the rear engine mounts away, smashing the flywheel housing, cracking the gearbox casing and fan into the rad. You would not have believed it from first impressions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin royan Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Was looking in truck and plant trader today,withams are advertising a choice of 10 good ones with a guide price of 10k.how does that work, can you offer less than 10k or are they looking for more?has anybody seen the condition of the ones at crouchs,and does anybody know how mutch they are really worth.as i live in the n.e scotland i dont want to travel all the way down just to view a bucket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphibi boy Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Kevin its better to view, but as you said its a long way. the guide price is just a guide, and for me a high one, considering some of the condition that they are in. obviously he is trying to get as much as he can for it, but its the m.o.d. who put the reserve on them, the more he gets, the more cut he makes. i know withams has the contract down here, but does he cover the disposals of scotland also? there's transport depots up there also! just a thought. we got ours for alot less. if you want one, i would suggest you call or mail crouch, tell him what your after, good one, concourse one, or fully working complete but in need of t.l.c etc then let him get you one, you may have to pay a little more but it will be less hassle than getting one from the tender, as you can go view and bid, cant take it away unless you win it in auction, then you have a limited time to collect! the ones in the direct sale i think are too expensive! hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphibi boy Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 just for comparrison, leyland drops weight:unladen:13.26, and then, a foden drops, weight:unladen (no flat rack) 16.12 with bv206d next to it, (the bv206d weighs curb:4500kg,troop carrier version(front car:2750, rear:1750) gross:6540kg) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin royan Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Is the foden a better vehicle than the scammell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphibi boy Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 There both good trucks, usually! except some faults, but its difficult to compare them against each other, the leyland is, "mmlc" medium, mobility, load,carrier and the foden is, "immlc" improved,medium,mobility,load,carrier. each have there plus points, and each there negative! i know wich one i prefer! (but then i am a big butch foden bias person anyway!) :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 okay the scammel has smaller driving wheels which I guess makes it a bit more confortable on the road and becaue its weight is some 3 tons less than the foden I guess it can haul a bit more... the foden is high, so the scammel would be better for the cariage of a 432... but could the scammel for instance pull a trailer (drawbar type) with say 14 ton 432, plus a 5 ton trailer with a ten ton load...the all up weight would be around 42 tons, under the legal limit of 44 tons...assuming the drops pallet is only 2 tons this would be close but workable... would the scammel have enough power, to my mind you really need about 350 plus BHP to pull that lot...although 450 would be best...any ideas if that is possible...I assume fitting a draw bar with air brakes and stuff would be no problem...and a flat bed onto the scammel to haul a stalwart or a 432...would it be better to remove the drops gear and just fit a flat bed...reducing the weight significantly, or is worth the ease of loading... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 There is no way you could run a Scammell DROPS with trailer under C & U regs at 44 tons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 The Leyland Daf DROPS with a king trailer is rated at 55 tonnes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) the leyland okay, but what about the scammel drops...if it were rated at 55 tons great, that means it can haul the weight. Any idea of the engine and the BHP...I am really keen to get this combo...and no idea what you mean by C & U regs...if you haul greater than 44 tons you have to get special permission thats all, as long as the vehicle is rated it can be used... Edited January 11, 2010 by paulob1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 the leyland okay, but what about the scammel drops...if it were rated at 55 tons great, that means it can haul the weight. Any idea of the engine and the BHP...I am really keen to get this combo...and no idea what you mean by C & U regs...if you haul greater than 44 tons you have to get special permission thats all, as long as the vehicle is rated it can be used... I take it you mean the Foden DROPS? The Leyland Daf is the Scammel looking one (same company more or less, but they are Leyland Daf trucks) Don't know about the Foden, I'm only trained on the Leyland Daf DROPS. The laden weight of the prime mover is 32,000kgs and believe it or not you only get 960kgs more laden weight with the Foden. With the King Trailer you have an all up weight of 55 tonnes which is STGO Category 2. I would rather get my hands on a Seddon Atkinson HET with a low loader trailer. By the time you've bought the DROPS and it's trailer you might as well get an HET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) Andy you cannot operate a private or civilian DROPS + trailer at 55 tons under STGO regs. STGO is for single indivisible loads which rules out 2 laden racks. A private or civilian laden DROPS + trailer cannot operate under Construction and Use regs at 44 tons because: 1) It does not have dual wheels on the driven axles 2) It needs an engine to EURO 2 standards or better 3) It must have road friendly suspension on drive and trailer axles 4) Each vehicle must have at least 3 axles. The army operate outside of both STGO and C&U regs, take the case of a Commander/Crane/Challenger combination. Total number of axles is classified as 5 (yes I know it has 7 but in line axles count as 1). Max weight per axle under STGO3 is 16.5 tons, 5 x 16.5 = 82.5 tons max, at least 20 tons short of what the combination is grossing. Edited January 12, 2010 by radiomike7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) solo driven axles take 11,500kg...so 32 tons for a scammel no problem. drawbars okay, these come with RFS so thats okay but because of the suspension...I may only have an all up of 40 tons...to carry the full 44 tons the scammel needs to have road friendly suspension...and I guess it doesnt have that...anyone know,? Is the scammel suspension steel, air or hydraulic? To qulify for the 44 tons I need RFS on all the axles..bugger... this then means the following...please correct if I am wrong... scammel could carry a 432 or a stolly it could pull a drawbar the total combined weight must only be 40 tons, even if the trailer has RFS..which it will have...13 tons for the scammel, 9 tons for the stolly makes 22 tons, 5 tons for the drawbar and 14 tons for the 432 makes 19 tons...bugger am just over...hmm wonder if I can get a 4 ton drawbar...that will carry 20 tons...that would then work...whatever at 40 tons it is going to be tight... Hmm thought I had solved all my problems then...I want to have a scammel so I can go play with it when I am off roading, well a little bit anyway... So likely my best route is to buy a 32 tonner that will take an 18 ton load, and air suspension and a draw bar trailer of 20 tons...hmm should not be too difficult to do that just a bit boring. Thanks for the heads up radio mike...in all the stuff i have been reading really didnt take in the maximum was subject to all wheels having the RFS... Edited January 12, 2010 by paulob1 spelling and grammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protruck Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 The scammell has multi leaf front and rear springs. Clive ................................... protruckservices.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 All up weight of Scammell DROPS with LHS, SRTE and a laden rack is given as 37.25 tonnes:shocked: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 yes steel suspension. Wont take 44 tons with the trailer then only 40...hmm okay scammel isnt the simple answer...shame, do like them...but even so perhaps one for the fun of it and hauling 40 tons isnt the end of the world....just not as much as I wanted..., if it is more then I suppose I need to get special permission to move the load...will look into that too...if all I need to do is inform the police then its not the end of the world...just a bit of paperwork... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protruck Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 This is an interesting one. from my old scammell photo's. http://www.protruckservices.com/Scammell%20Drops/scan00016.jpg Clive ........................................... protruckservices.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Andy you cannot operate a private or civilian DROPS + trailer at 55 tons under STGO regs. STGO is for single indivisible loads which rules out 2 laden racks. A private or civilian laden DROPS + trailer cannot operate under Construction and Use regs at 44 tons because: 1) It does not have dual wheels on the driven axles 2) It needs an engine to EURO 2 standards or better 3) It must have road friendly suspension on drive and trailer axles 4) Each vehicle must have at least 3 axles. The army operate outside of both STGO and C&U regs, take the case of a Commander/Crane/Challenger combination. Total number of axles is classified as 5 (yes I know it has 7 but in line axles count as 1). Max weight per axle under STGO3 is 16.5 tons, 5 x 16.5 = 82.5 tons max, at least 20 tons short of what the combination is grossing. Mike, I was of course stating what we did with them in the Army. For Civilian use, as you say, they need to adhere to all the regulations. That's why I mentioned the HET as it's more practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin royan Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Here,s some pictures of a drops that fell off a bridge in the north of scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Bl--dy hell ! One carefull owner ! Bet the underpant laundry was busy after that ! Good to see in service photos ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Here,s some pictures of a drops that fell off a bridge in the north of scotland About 16 years ago we were rebuiding a heap of those in same roll over / crashed condition, from Bosnia, then they were sent back out there. Sadly no photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hope the driver got out of that? Looks a right mess. Hope it wasn't his fault as he will be liable for 10% of the damage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hope the driver got out of that? Looks a right mess. Hope it wasn't his fault as he will be liable for 10% of the damage... Really, how does that work? What if a HET driver wrote off a Challenger + the HET? 10% of £5.5 mil would put a bit of a dent in his bank balance. There must be far worse scenarios.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthecorner Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Really, how does that work? What if a HET driver wrote off a Challenger + the HET? 10% of £5.5 mil would put a bit of a dent in his bank balance. There must be far worse scenarios.... It's a big company. You'd be suprised what can be achieved with a few jars of coffee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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