Bedford MJ cold start system

[overthere]

Hello,

 

I would like to get some information on the cold start system on the 330 Bedford engine in the MJ.

 

For instance how is it provided fuel, what maintenance does it need, I heard that there is a way to prime it?

 

Any insight into this system would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Robin

[LoggyDriver]

Hello mate,

 

This is copy and pasted from the AESP.

 

 

With temperature below +10 degrees C to -32 degrees C

13. See that main gearbox gear shift lever is in neutral and the parking brake

control is applied.

14. Turn key-start switch to 'ON' position.

15. Check that manual stop control is in 'run' position.

16. Depress cold start device control knob and hold down.

17. After 15 seconds fully depress clutch and accelerator pedals and turn keystart

switch to engage starter.

18. When engine fires evenly release key-start switch and release clutch pedal.

19. When engine is running evenly, release cold start control knob and

gradually release accelerator pedal to maintain 1000 rev/min for 3 mins.

20. Return to idle.

CAUTION

If engine does not start after 10 seconds cranking, turn key-start

to OFF position, operate stop control and repeat procedure as

from para 13.

 

 

ARMY EQUIPMENT 2320-H-100-201

SUPPORT PUBLICATION

Chap 3.1

Jun 83 Page 5

Note

 

The cold start device holds 3 minutes of fuel. If the device is operated for

more than 3 minutes, refill by hand priming for 200 strokes and repeat

starting procedure as from para 13.

[Stone]

Is there supposed to be a knob on top of the cold start control shaft? I assume it's the one sticking up in the cab next to the ignition and engine stop controls...think ours might have been fiddled with

 

Stone

[LoggyDriver]

Is there supposed to be a knob on top of the cold start control shaft? I assume it's the one sticking up in the cab next to the ignition and engine stop controls...think ours might have been fiddled with

 

Stone

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it's next to the engine shutdown.

[Stone]

We've got one but if it ever had a handle it's been snapped off

 

In what direction does it operate? Ours just sits there...

 

Stone

[ferretfixer]

Hello,

 

I would like to get some information on the cold start system on the 330 Bedford engine in the MJ.

 

For instance how is it provided fuel, what maintenance does it need, I heard that there is a way to prime it?

 

Any insight into this system would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Robin

 

BEFORE this cold start device can be used. You MUST insert an aliuminium container inside the main housing. This contains Ether & aids starting in VERY cold conditions. I remember seeing them six on a card in Service. Apart from contacting anybody serving in the MT at the present time. I dont know where you could obtain them. The device will NOT work without one of these containers.

:coffee: Mike

[abn deuce]

Hello mate,

 

This is copy and pasted from the AESP.

 

 

With temperature below +10 degrees C to -32 degrees C

13. See that main gearbox gear shift lever is in neutral and the parking brake

control is applied.

14. Turn key-start switch to 'ON' position.

15. Check that manual stop control is in 'run' position.

16. Depress cold start device control knob and hold down.

17. After 15 seconds fully depress clutch and accelerator pedals and turn keystart

switch to engage starter.

18. When engine fires evenly release key-start switch and release clutch pedal.

19. When engine is running evenly, release cold start control knob and

gradually release accelerator pedal to maintain 1000 rev/min for 3 mins.

20. Return to idle.

CAUTION

If engine does not start after 10 seconds cranking, turn key-start

to OFF position, operate stop control and repeat procedure as

from para 13.

 

 

ARMY EQUIPMENT 2320-H-100-201

SUPPORT PUBLICATION

Chap 3.1

Jun 83 Page 5

Note

 

The cold start device holds 3 minutes of fuel. If the device is operated for

more than 3 minutes, refill by hand priming for 200 strokes and repeat

starting procedure as from para 13.

 

How far do they mount the fuel tank from the cab and engine that it takes 200 strokes?? or is the primer pump really really tiny ?

[LoggyDriver]

How far do they mount the fuel tank from the cab and engine that it takes 200 strokes?? or is the primer pump really really tiny ?

 

 

 

The fuel tank is on the opposite side to the primer pump and cold start device. It says it holds 3 minutes of fuel, so I guess it takes 200 strokes to fill the receptical of fuel oil purely because of the size of it.

[abn deuce]

Ok that makes sense forgot about the three minutes supply volume

[overthere]

BEFORE this cold start device can be used. You MUST insert an aliuminium container inside the main housing. This contains Ether & aids starting in VERY cold conditions. I remember seeing them six on a card in Service. Apart from contacting anybody serving in the MT at the present time. I dont know where you could obtain them. The device will NOT work without one of these containers.

:coffee: Mike

 

 

This is still what is confusing about my original question. I assumed that the cold starting device was fed diesel fuel from the fuel system and that you would have to prime it using the lifter pump if you ran it dry. However, I am assuming that the cold start reservoir is always full as long as the engine has been running and you have not used the system since you last stopped the engine.

 

Now based on the quote I have above from one of the replies to my post you require an aluminum container and the system contains Ether?

 

If someone knows exactly how this system works and what exactly fuels it diesel or ether and how that is achieved, PLEASE clarify for me.

 

Thanks,

Robin

[eddy8men]

hi i used to work on bedfords(ex reme).There was 2 cold start devices, but man that was a long time ago so i may be wrong about the finer details.there was a pump and chamber on the dash that you placed the ether into but i think that was just for the older mk's.mj's had a black button which you depress for the heater plugs.as far as i can remeber there was no seperate fuel reservoir for cold start as the injector pump was always in the excess fuel position until the accelerator was depressed for the first time.sorry i can't be more specific but that's about as much as i remeber and that might not be spot on as it's been a while.hope it helps eddy

[LoggyDriver]

This is still what is confusing about my original question. I assumed that the cold starting device was fed diesel fuel from the fuel system and that you would have to prime it using the lifter pump if you ran it dry. However, I am assuming that the cold start reservoir is always full as long as the engine has been running and you have not used the system since you last stopped the engine.

 

Now based on the quote I have above from one of the replies to my post you require an aluminum container and the system contains Ether?

 

If someone knows exactly how this system works and what exactly fuels it diesel or ether and how that is achieved, PLEASE clarify for me.

 

Thanks,

Robin

 

 

 

 

 

My Bedford MJ certainly doesn't require Ether for the cold start. I am pretty sure that the early MK multifuel engines used this system of cold start device.

 

When I am at War and Peace, there are a few Dutch guys who always park in the same place (who have a MUTT and always park on the corner near the exit)every year. One of them came over and it turns out he is a truck mechanic who works on Scania V8's. He was looking around my Bedford and I was amazed what the guy knew. I've worked and driven on these trucks when I was in the Army, but this guy knew everything about the Bedford.

 

He told me how the cold start works (even knew how many pumps of the primer pump were required to fill it). Apparently what happens is when you use the cold start there are some electrodes on the device that heat up. When you turn the truck over the fuel oil hits the electrodes and catches fire. This is then sucked into the cylinders to heat them up. It holds 3 minutes of fuel for this purpose. If it hasn't started by then you need to prime it 200 times to fill the container with fuel again.

 

Looking at mine there are several fuel pipes around this device, one I think from the fuel filter housing and another from the primer pump? I will take some pictures of this.

 

The Ether method mentioned is probably the earlier type, but the system fitted on mine and which part of the AESP I posted is definitely a diesel based cold start system. I will take some pictures of the device and post on here.

Edited November 25, 2009 by LoggyDriver

[Richard Farrant]

He told me how the cold start works (even knew how many pumps of the primer pump were required to fill it). Apparently what happens is when you use the cold start there are some electrodes on the device that heat up. When you turn the truck over the fuel oil hits the electrodes and catches fire. This is then sucked into the cylinders to heat them up. It holds 3 minutes of fuel for this purpose. If it hasn't started by then you need to prime it 200 times to fill the container with fuel again.

 

 

 

This cold start is the CAV Thermostart, it is a heater plug, that is held on for the specified time, at which point a ball valve open allowing diesel through, this catches fire, this is the point you start the engine, the flames are then sucked into the engine. A very common type of cold start device and works well, usually the first time.

 

The Start Pilot pump was fitted to the MK, I do not recollect it on the MJ, long time since I was working on them now, but have never had to use a Start Pilot cartridge on a Bedford. also a MK had an electric fuel pump so the instructions on an earleir post are specifally for a MJ

[LoggyDriver]

This cold start is the CAV Thermostart, it is a heater plug, that is held on for the specified time, at which point a ball valve open allowing diesel through, this catches fire, this is the point you start the engine, the flames are then sucked into the engine. A very common type of cold start device and works well, usually the first time.

 

The Start Pilot pump was fitted to the MK, I do not recollect it on the MJ, long time since I was working on them now, but have never had to use a Start Pilot cartridge on a Bedford. also a MK had an electric fuel pump so the instructions on an earleir post are specifally for a MJ

 

 

 

 

 

That's correct Richard, those instructions are for the MJ. There is a sticky label on the inside of the drivers side windscreen telling you what you need to do. Glad you backed up what the Dutch guy told me.

 

My truck only needs half a turn of the starter to fire up, and she runs smooth instantly (so it should with 2,500 miles on it). I've not tried the cold start yet for obvious reasons, but I will try it when it's very cold just to see how she starts.

[Sam]

hello

on the 330 engine NON turbo, as fitted to TK and MK, it sounds like an altogether different system - on the offchance that it is your system i've replied.

 

if your system has a manual pump for ether anywhere in line (or a plastic jar under one of the engine access flaps mounted on a bulkhead for the ether) then this one isn't yours.

 

knob between seats for cold start presses in a bit? it's a switch. power lead to one side of cold start on air intake manifold? cold start unit (small heater coil screwed into casing on air intake manifold) is fed diesel through a pretty thin copper fuel line?

 

if this is what you have, and it's all still on the vehicle;

1; press and hold cold start button for up to 20 seconds. 10 should do it.

2; if the coil is in good condition you'll hear a "woomph" after about 10 seconds - now your air intake manifold is full of hot air. (if the coil is not so great it'll still be doing some good - check for warmth and power draw while button pressed - if none; it's bust.)

3; start your engines!

4; adjust tickover knob so idle is comfortable, re-adjust in ten minutes or so.

 

my current TK has most of the above missing. foot to the floor and crank, it starts. the last one had it in place, though the whole setup was tired. minus 10 degrees C, mountains, france. enough juice for one attempt at starting. it always (sometimes only just) started.

 

all the best

sam

Edited November 26, 2009 by Sam

[Richard Farrant]

if your system has a manual pump for ether anywhere in line (or a plastic jar under one of the engine access flaps mounted on a bulkhead for the ether) then this one isn't yours.

 

 

 

Hi Sam,

 

That plastic jar under the engine flap, is not for cold starting, it is filled with Methanol and drawn into the air brake system to stop moisture freezing valves.

[Sam]

Hi Sam,

 

That plastic jar under the engine flap, is not for cold starting, it is filled with Methanol and drawn into the air brake system to stop moisture freezing valves.

 

WHOOPS!

lucky mine doesn't have that either then!

sorry for the mis info,

 

sam

[overthere]

I appreciate everyone who responded to my post about the Bedford MJ cold start system. I feel that I now have a clear understanding of how the system works. This should help with monitoring and repair of the system if needed. Hopefully, not.

 

It is getting colder every day here in Canada and I will be putting this system to the test any time I want to run my MJ between now and sometime in March when the temperature gets above freezing.

 

Thanks,

Robin

[Stone]

Gave this a try yesterday (following the instructions on the windscreen sticker) and nothing seemed to happen...?

 

Held down the button for the specified 15 seconds and nothing happened at all. The engine hadn't been run for a while so there might not have been any fuel in the cold start reservoir, how long would it take to drain out or doesn't it? I didn't prime it first.

 

The windscreen instructions are quite formulaic, should it be 'hold cold start knob until you hear the whoompf'?

 

It's been run since then so hopefully everything's prepared for it...might give it another go later if anyone has any ideas?

 

Stone

[antarmike]

Some flame starting systems keep the reservoir tank full, by running the leak off from the injectors, into the reservoir, which when full overflows and returns the leak off back to the fuel tank. I don't know whether Bedfords do this but that is how it worked on a Perkins 4108 I was unlucky enough to run at one time.

[Anthony]

Gave this a try yesterday (following the instructions on the windscreen sticker) and nothing seemed to happen...?

 

The windscreen instructions are quite formulaic, should it be 'hold cold start knob until you hear the whoompf'?

 

It's been run since then so hopefully everything's prepared for it...might give it another go later if anyone has any ideas?

 

Stone

 

Did you manage to get it working?

[Tev]

I have a 1976 Bedford MJ (330 non turbo), which refuses to start when cold.

 

The lorry has been a timber tractor for most of its life, it only has 1500 miles on the clock (which I believe to be genuine but it will have done as many miles backwards as forwards). The guy it came from said that it started fine, unless it was cold and then he used some easy start.

 

I have replaced the battery (which helped A LOT it being a 12V system – discovered that BMW X5s have an equivalent 900A starting current battery!), replaced all the filters and changed the engine oil.

 

The engine starts first time every time if it has been running earlier on in the day (even if a number of hours ago), but if not it just wont start unless you use easy start (which I know is generally bad news for the engine). It just turns over (at a reasonable speed), puffs smoke out of the exhaust but dose not do anything else.

 

Having read the various posts on here, I don’t believe my cold start works (though I will check it next time im over with it), at least it doesn’t seem to make the whooshing noise others speak of. Having said that, it won’t start when “cold” even when the ambient temperature is at least 15-20 degrees.

 

Any ideas or suggestions as to what to try?

 

Tev

[Richard Farrant]

I have a 1976 Bedford MJ (330 non turbo), which refuses to start when cold.

 

The lorry has been a timber tractor for most of its life, it only has 1500 miles on the clock (which I believe to be genuine but it will have done as many miles backwards as forwards). The guy it came from said that it started fine, unless it was cold and then he used some easy start.

 

I have replaced the battery (which helped A LOT it being a 12V system – discovered that BMW X5s have an equivalent 900A starting current battery!), replaced all the filters and changed the engine oil.

 

The engine starts first time every time if it has been running earlier on in the day (even if a number of hours ago), but if not it just wont start unless you use easy start (which I know is generally bad news for the engine). It just turns over (at a reasonable speed), puffs smoke out of the exhaust but dose not do anything else.

 

Having read the various posts on here, I don’t believe my cold start works (though I will check it next time im over with it), at least it doesn’t seem to make the whooshing noise others speak of. Having said that, it won’t start when “cold” even when the ambient temperature is at least 15-20 degrees.

 

Any ideas or suggestions as to what to try?

 

Tev

 

Hi Tev,

 

Was this an ex-army Bedford? If it was 1976 and army one, then it would have the multifuel injection pump and that would make it a MK, also it would have been 24 volts. A few pictures of it might help to identify it, like in the engine bay.

 

It might be a civilian model, and that is why it is 12 volt, but best to check it out first.

 

They were generally reasonably good starters and did not require use of the heater plugs unless exceptionally cold, but would smoke until warmed up.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Richard Farrant

[Tev]

Hi Tev,

 

Was this an ex-army Bedford? If it was 1976 and army one, then it would have the multifuel injection pump and that would make it a MK, also it would have been 24 volts. A few pictures of it might help to identify it, like in the engine bay.

 

It might be a civilian model, and that is why it is 12 volt, but best to check it out first.

 

They were generally reasonably good starters and did not require use of the heater plugs unless exceptionally cold, but would smoke until warmed up.

 

I believe it is a civilian one, originally owned by eastern electric.

 

 

 

I was going to upload some photos but it dosent seem to be having any of it im afraid!

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Tev

[Richard Farrant]

I believe it is a civilian one, originally owned by eastern electric.

 

 

 

I was going to upload some photos but it dosent seem to be having any of it im afraid!

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Tev

 

Thank Tev,

 

That makes sense now, as it obviously is a civilian MJ so would assume they were 12 volt, unlike army ones. Perhaps your heater plug ( Thermostart) is not working or supply of fuel to is is not getting through.