nz2

My comment regards casting was towards the method, not the materal used. I agree with you on the point of rusting,and the use of steel. However can see no sign of a welded join indicating a flat plate as the origin. Your mention of rolling the ridges is a valid point and if done hot could also account of the raised edges. Could the hoops be also be joined in the hot state, similar to a blacksmith forging joint, but done mechanically. If a factory was producing hundreds of hoop rims at a time some form of mechanisation would be expected. An updated version of the blacsmith making cart wheel hoops (tyres) individually and by hand. I will wander off latter today and photograph the different tyres. Doug

The comment on the band or hoop for the tyre being a rolled piece of steel then welded, doesn't fit the description of the wheels we have. These are made of cast. As such the skill in casting these to fit with fine tolerances to be then pressed on to the wheel shows through. The Leyland rear rims have a series of raised ridges on outer face to assist the bonding of the rubber to the metal. Thornycroft bands have a raised ridge about the edge of the band to stop the tyre sliding off should it become loose, or to protect the edge of the band and tyre from damage These points show the bands as being cast and not a rolled item Doug

The 6x6 format was used by Thornycroft during the 1960's and 70's as airfield crash fire appliances. This was also called a Nubian. A specialist role than continued to the end of Thornycroft production in 1976.

I'm interested in the 6x6 format you have. Can you supply some photos of the vehicle in question? I would suspect that given the date you have of 1948 it would be ex military design. Thornycroft production tended to be 6x4 as in the Amazon model with Coles cranes attached and mainly for use by the RAF. The Nubian model was a 4x4, again ex military design. However aside from production runs individual trucks for specialst applications were made to order. This has become noticable when looking at export orders ( ie variations on imports seen here). It was all about gaining money. Doug

Thankyou for the replies. It's a matter of trying to piece together items of finer detail to go with the 1916 Leyland when it is completed. The overalls look remarkly similar to current ones available, but the tunics/ smocks will require some seamstress work. Are patterns available? Doug

Hi to a fellow kiwi

Thanks Clive for including the link to view this piece. I was puzzled intially by the first few comments. I find this very respectfull of an event that was fround upon by the higher comand when they heard of it 's occurance. It is produced in a manner depecting the events and conditions of the time. It has not been sanitized to show only modern acceptable standards, or the usual buy from me type adverts that are the normal run of the mill. The film editing is great in depicting the story. It is a small piece of the WW1 history that is so often lost against the stories published of the great battles. It could have been filmed in black and white with reduced definition, in the form of a news reel of the day, but this shows a recreation of an event. How many people know of that this actual event occurred, or will viewers take this as a thought that film makers dream up. Is this any different to a feature movie being made about such an event, when the final result is a cash follow from the cinema to the film's funders. Will those involved in funding this now continue with similar adverts as other centenary events of WW1 come around? It will be interesting to see if the rights to screen this are taken up by other companies on this side of the world. Doug

Photos abound of pilots in their uniforms, however what was the style of the uniform issued to ground crew and other service personnel about an airfield?

It does appear that there is no rubber on the wheels. The rear wheels show a steel band about the outside of the wheel while the front wheel has a deeper edge to the wheel, almost as if it was a wooden sections about the wheel. This would equat to a fellow on a wooden spoke cart wheel, but they had a steel tyre about them to hold it all together. Radiator design and the front tow hook leads me to consider a European manufacturer, with Tatra coming to mind, also purhaps early Benz. Doug

The rim looks like that from an Austin Gipsy. Five stud 16 inch and the pointed domes to hold on the hub caps identify the type. An early Landrover rim is the same stud pattern and will fit the hub. Doug

Also a restored one in NZ and another as a farm trailer. Some parts for the restored one came from Scotland. Doug

Further to Ben's posting on the chassis number. Could this chassis be from a fire engine? Doug

It is interesting to read others having tools given as presents many years ago. I to have still a pair of pincher pliers, a small saw and a wooden sprit level that was a birthday or Christmas present from my parents at least fifty years ago. Probably was a hammer in there as well but that has been lost over time. The pinchers look very similar to those in the photos posted, yet are here on the other side of the world. Perhaps this was part of the great British marketing campaign of the late fifties and early sixties. Exported to the other Commonwelth nations. The saw was only light and was reserved for cutting thin timbers in fret work. This is still suitable for fine work today. I do also have a number of tools handed down from my father, that came from his father and also some tools from my maternal grandfather. Doug

I have been recently shown a generator on a heavy cast bed plate with the name Sunderland Forge and Engineering Co. Ltd cast along the sides. A Google search shows they were very much into providing equipment for ships, and some reference to war time supplies. I have located a line drawing of a ship board generating plant with the same style of generator coupled to a vertical steam engine. The patern of the electrical widings and the nature of the base plate makes me think of an earlier time period than WW11, however it could be eary WW11. The weight of the base plate would not make it all the suitable as a mobile unit. No numbers or stamp makes could be located , although the light was fading rapidly and the search was not great. The story goes that this unit was used to supply power to a searchlight ( missing), then later to supply power to a location off the national grid. A search through the Forum brings up no reference so far on this manufacturer. There is an additional steel plate over the generator on this example, this could be an addition for protection from the weather, or as a design change over the years of manufacture. Interested to know of possable dating to the unit and it's possble linkage to war use with a search light. Also what voltage would have it produced. Doug

I will support Mikes ID as a White of the early to mid 1920's. The position and shape of the front spring mounts show the White pattern and the rear spring mounts are a characteristic shape for Whites of that time. It is a heavier weight truck as Mike has described. Dayton produced axles and wheels for a great number of different U.S. truck manufacturers. Doug

The rapid degrading of uniforms due to oil splashes brings up a point. Did the Army in WW1 supply some other clothing to be worn by traction engine and roller crews? Many of the crews enlisted with the engines so may have brought additional jackets for use. What was the the offical viewpoint of such extra clothing? Would this have been any different to men working in the workshops, repairing items covered with grease and oil. I have a number of items of clothing accumulated for recreating period events when out on a traction engine or roller. Black spots of oil abound! Looking over photos of steam traction engines in working operation, the mens clothing is consistant of white shirts, waist coat and jackets. Always amazes me as to the use of the white shirts. A full week of operating must have produced totally black sleeves and collars not covered by the waist coat. What was used to clean them? Doug

Absolutely marvelous!! So great to see a lack of orange or green vests detracting from the scene. The use of army period uniforms for the crew also gives a great atmosphere to the occassion. Thanks Tim for posting this. Doug

Great images of the event, seeing the restored lorries displayed together. Definately beats a static display inside a building. Gives the motivation to go do some more on the Leyland here, but I have a tractor to work on first as it's needed for work about the orchard. On your trip to the event what sort of speed are you able to maintain, given the terrian, and what is the fuel consumption? Doug

Did you drive the Dennis to the event or was it transported? Same as to the other lorries. Great to see the line up in a period setting. Always a difficult task to clear the background of modern vehicles. Only point in conflict is these were army issue vehicles so its the wong setting being with aircraft. Crossely and Leyland would be the appropiate makes. Any way a great display. Doug

I'll try again with the photo of the brake casting. Doug

Do the brake drums show the casting marks of the Catton Foundry? Also are there cast numbers on the top of the axle. Not all axle housings have these which could be casting dates. Doug

My comment refers to the mis-spelling as it the e is often added through a spellcheck. There are a number of books recently published with the wrong spelling of this manufacturer. As for the Nubian model with the coal head, how did this operate? Do you have any photos of the rear of the machine. Doug

There is no such vehicle! The vehicle manufacturer has no e in the name. Thornycroft Nubians do exist.

Just returned from a walk down back inspecting the bits here and three sets of wheels are the same. None have the additional band about the edge. Even the latter model J of what appears to to about 1924 has the single brake band. The 1920 manual shows an illustration with the extra ribbing band in the parts pages. Are there any casting markings on the brake band you have had sand blasted? Your could be casting be by a different foundry. Two sets I have here have JAC cast on them. Doug

Two points arise from such a restoration; Do you want to use the item in the short term, or is it a long term ambission to rebuild an item. Richard's Water Buffalo appears to be operational and ready to run so it has the advantage it going in the short term. The one sitting on the island is a challange in recovery, then restoration. The aspect of transporting eitherby truck home is the same. This comes down to your own ability to finance a recovery. Those operating a barge service to the region would know capable contractors they are happy to work with in undertaking such a retreivial.I take it you have checked the current ownership of the item and site. Some times the recovery is the greatest challage and the most rewarding part of a restoration. Go For it! Doug