nz2

On looking at the photos again the curvature of the front axle is downwards. The angle of the image certainly plays tricks with the eyes! This lead took me off on a search of steam wagons where some have a curved front axle passing around a vertical boiler. No joy in locating a steamer with seven spoked wheels on solid rubber tyres. The large spring hangers for the front of the rear springs are an identifiable feature, but I can't find any photos of trucks showing such parts. Another possible is the British Berna truck, as the front spring mounts do appear similar, however the clarity of the photos I have as reference does not show the level of detail to positively say so. The Berna spoke wheel pattern is similar in shape to some examples having flat spokes while others have round spokes. Spoke numbers however are not matching to the unknown chassis. The spoke pattern is similar to that on Thornycroft model J and some Thornycroft castings were undertaken by Catton's Foundry, along with castings also for Yorkshire and Garrett steam wagons. If Catton's made the wheels for this chassis, it could have been an off the shelf casting pattern, with a minor change to the pattern to avoid upsetting the larger clients. That is if Catton's made and owned the pattern. All possible theories! Doug

Note the front axle curves forward, not downward. Photo no. 3 shows a front spring indicating this position on the axle. The king pins are lying horizontal in the image further supporting the front curved axle. The front axle has a hexagonal shaped bearing cap. As for a manufacturers name to it, some more research is needed. Doug

Standardization of parts is an interesting point. A couple of years ago we decided to swap over a worn front tyre by simply replacing the wheel with another on stock. This is on a 1916 Leyland with WD and RFC history. On placing the replacement wheel on the stub axle it would not fit. A further check on other bronze bushes of the wheels found of seven about the yard, only two were the same size! Stub axles also of differing sizes. These wheels covered the period 1916 through to the mid 20's. Certainly not a standardised pattern. Doug

Solid rubber wheels were always in metric, aside from the Americans who used imperial measurements. Doug

How have the neighbours reacted to what is now the finished product? Doug

The design form of having a long front overhang Is more pronounced in trucks of the 1930's. Visually, this one is all out of kilter. The size of the bonnet in height to length does not match the proportion of wheel size. The cab doors are designed to fit over a wheel arch and show the curve in the panel. The front radiator panel is probably what detracts the most, both in design of the the two panels with corner curves and the colour painted. If a lighter colour was applied reducing the contrast in this area the visual effect of disorganised construction would be lessened. What appears to be a chrome or stainless radiator surround also does not help. I suspect the vehicle was constructed for a particular use, using available items, and with a restricted budget. Long as it worked effectively that was the important point. Interesting how colour combinations can have such a strong effect on perceived body form. ( Working back now from earlier years with photography) Doug

Also another twin drive shaft Austin in New Zealand. Doug

The turret as shown on the photograph appears to be of the type built originally for the Navy, then transfered on to the Army. The chassis it sits on has a diff rather than chain drive so that excludes Peerless. The wheels in the photo are not all that clear. They could be wood suggesting an American chassis, or a Sakey type pattern being British. The alloy gear box and size of the engine should be a clue. Doug

Further to the radiator guard points. The early J I have here has no holes in the sides of the chassis rails for bolting on a guard in the manner as shown in the photos. However there are two holes in about the right position on the top of the rail for the vertical steel and another two further back , also on the top where the slanting section would meet the chassis. It would appear these had additional flanges allowing them to be mounded on top of the chassis rails. I have a drawing in an advert showing the guard sections not extending down on the vertical face of the chassis rails. If only we had a parts book pre 1915 to compare with. Doug

Interested to read of the difference in hole spacing on the dumb irons. Now I will have to check over the various bits here for these differences! A quick run back over this whole thread shows no clear photos of how the mounts were attached, either riveted or bolted. Early is riveted and one latter ( 1920's) is bolted, but that may well be as a result of a repair from accident damage. My early J (c 1913) also shows a difference in hole patterns to those on your photos. Doug

That is a superb display. No shiny vehicles but enough dust and mud residue to indicate use. The use of soil and dry leaves adds to the effect. Great. Doug

The point is raised as to storage of carbide in war conditions. This would be kept in bulk at storage depots back from the lines and supplied to vehicles as required. The pressure of acetylene being produced is low, and I recall while caving when having problems with lamps not sealing correctly and leaking gas, the cure was to smother the effected area with silt. That fixed the problem. Also here we are looking over the progression of development. Go back a few years before and the delay in fighting fires was longer as the steam boiler was requiring time to gain full pressure. This was only about 5 minutes as the fire was always smoldering with the water hot. Also catch the horses and attach them to the harness. Yes, a petrol powered engine would be faster, once it was started. Petrol into priming cups, ignition set to the right position, then crank. I recall talking to an old fire brigade member here in town who joined the brigade as a teenager and his job was to crank start the engine. There were times when it did not go and the brigade was very late in getting to the fire. Doug

Interesting to note the extent of movement on the body of the truck from the recoil of firing. In some shots it appears the legs and jacks may not have been down, as other images show a more stable platform at firing. With that amount of chassis flexing I wonder what the life expectancy of a mobile unit was? The speed between moving along to firing is surprisingly quick, with so many men about preparing the truck. I wonder if this was the normal number of crew or do we have more here for the filming. Doug

Can I get a clarification on this point made; "I'd imagine it had some good advantages against carbide lamps if you could keep the batteries going. Not releasing explosive gas when wet for a start." Have used carbide lamps extensively in my younger days when actively caving, I can't follow that thread and reference to the gas when wet. Acetylene gas is easy to work with, add water to the carbide, light the gas at the jet and you have light. As long as all joints are sealed then no problems. The type of pressure being dealt with is low so the explosive risk is low. Given a suitable large reflector a carbide lightcan become a good spotlight. Admittedly not as fast to start as turning on a switch. I'm looking forward in setting up acetylene lamps on our vehicles. That smell of the gas brings back memories. Doug

Having family members involved with brass bands there are a few sorry moments covered when in parades etc and the ground is not flat. Even a small pothole or bump is enough to trip a person and one tumbling can hit others, compounding into catastrophe. Playing carols from the back of a truck has lead to cut lips and chipped teeth, if playing on the move. Safer now to stop the truck then play. Notice with this bicycle band the floor is smooth and the bikes appear to have locked hubs controlling the brakes from the pedals with no free wheel position. A great show. Doug

This page describes the process in building an engine as per original. http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/engines/raf4a-engine/raf-4a-engine

Much of the funding and influence for the aircraft restoration and total builds ( as a new aircraft from original plans) comes from the film maker Peter Jackson and his companies. The boarded up bus is characteristic of nature of the work. Check also http://www.omaka.org.nz/ This collection has also had the film makers influence in display format. It is not a row of aircraft simply lined up.An outstanding display. Doug

Dan, Did you work out which model this chassis is? As a point of interest what is the wheel base, for it seems to be be about a 2 1/2 tonner. Interested to read of the crankshaft marking indicating an American engine. That design of front engine mount and oil filler matches nothing I have here. The cast block and steel sump makes the engine dating to me in the period around 1920. Prior dates tend to be alloy crankcase as with Lycoming engines. If we could find a link showing which motor manufacturers the foundry supplied crank shafts to, that would help.My searching through the internet has brought up nothing. Your rebuilding is a magnificent undertaking. Doug

Agree, not the normal. Hence the interest. Doug

I haven't heard of the CD so can't comment on that. I have 3 copies of Dyke's book spanning the 1920' and 30's, as well as photo copies of some pages from other dates.The earlier versions listing of specifications are in a different format to the latter versions which show more information. Although printed annually, or thereabouts, some of the data as in the charts referred to remain the same for years on end. In this I am referring to only the pages containing listings of specifications, the books are over a thousand pages of other information Still a handy reference book for American vehicles. Doug

Dale, you are correct in your observations to the wooden spacers. I noticed this in measuring up the wheels to compare the size to the rear axle set. The difference is not great , about 4 mm per side. Putting thin sections in could well have been a tricky operation, or was this a bit like wheels with wooden spokes , where regular immersion in water kept the spokes and fellows tight as the wood swelled. Doug

I am sure bits are out there Tony even in the UK. If one was to get into statistics and probabilities, then considering the greater number of these early vehicles that worked about Britain there should be bits remaining. Scrap collections over time have seen this material go,however other items tend to remain hidden. As has been shown on this Forum, complete chassis have been recovered from under buildings, where they have survived for all those years. Those vehicles that went to the Colonies were in comparison few in number and like those in the U.K. most disappeared in scrap drives over the years. It has been the change of use from trucks to be rebuilt as trailers all those years ago that has saved so many of the parts we have located. In saying that ,it's fine for the chassis and wheels, however locating the correct engines and transmissions is a totally different story. They disappeared. However we will keep looking. These findings are not a short term event! Doug

My son Karl has been out collecting up more bits. We have been fortunate that a scrap dealer has put aside sets of wheels for us, and it was at one location he was able to purchase a number of sets of wheels. One set stood out as being particularly useful to use as the bearing caps were marked Thornycroft. So now we have a front axle to match the rear chain drive axle located last year. Now to continue looking for all those parts that fit in between. The cast spokes would date this 1912-15. A number (47) were imported into New Zealand prior to WW1. I am uncertain if of this model any came in ( imported) after the war as rebuilt vehicles. Doug

Thanks Les for the reply. I'm picking it's around the time 1924, being the combination of solid rubber tyres and then brakes on the front axle. The front spring bushes are too small in length for International and the tube mounts are of a different pattern as well. It does appear more like a White from the front. The rear spring mounts having a quarter round shape are another differing feature. Note also the heavy cast cross member to carry the engine. Reference to Dykes Auto Encyclopedia , shows a few possibilities as to the maker, but nothing matches up with regards to wheel base, suppliers of components being Smith wheels etc. Could well be one of the smaller manufacturers out of the USA using propitiatory parts. Doug

this chassis has puzzled me for some years in trying to identify it. I'm picking its American as it has Smith wheels and Smith front axle, Solid rubber tyres and brakes on the front. Sheldon rear axle inverted so it could a bus chassis. 165 inch wheel base. the tubular cross member by the front springs is similar to White and International, though both manufacturers used their own parts. Any help appreciated. Doug