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OK, one stage forward! But Woomera did a lot of testing of various flying objects. So the assumption is , so far, that is a missile. Could it be a drone? Interesting take on how the place got its name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woomera_(spear-thrower)

Missile yes Tony but not a drone. Yes Woomera another take on not liking it up 'em :-)

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Oh that complicates what it is. Black Knight was a research rocket, Blue Steel, which was supposed to be Britian's own IBM but ended up as the first stage of Europa launcher. So not nessacarily a military device.

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Oh that complicates what it is. Black Knight was a research rocket, Blue Steel, which was supposed to be Britian's own IBM but ended up as the first stage of Europa launcher. So not nessacarily a military device.

 

I only meant it in the very broadest sense, this is more tactical than strategic.

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Testing booster rockets for Bloodhound missile?

 

CORRECTION

 

Sorry Richard & everyone.

 

Richard you are correct, it is indeed testing for what became Bloodhound at that stage it was Red Duster

Edited by fv1609
Serious error on my part

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is this to do with the redstone missile

 

Ah there you are Wally I knew you would be around soon. Nope this is British but you are halfway there.;)

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Clive a long shot the Redstone missile was used as a test bed for other systems is the answer to do with a british missile

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If not Bloodhound, then maybe Thunderbird?

 

Gordon

 

Gordon you are right to guess it might be the other one, but please see my corrected post that Richard had identified it correctly as testing the ram jets for what was to become Bloodhound.

 

So outstanding issues are: What is the thing on the ground & what is the name of this test vehicle (not the Q4!) as I believe the two things are related in a corny sort of way.

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IS it to do with THOR missiles or something smaller?

 

Yes Wally I wasn't expecting that level of detail but these are indeed Thor rocket motors powering this recoverable ram jet test vehicle.

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Do I get MID for coming up with Bloodhound?

 

I don't know what a "MID" is Tony so I don't know if you get one. But you do get an apology because you were correct that it was in connection with Bloodhound.So sorry about that I see you posted that at 1810, but I completely missed that post.

The problem here is that there is no broadband & I am using a phone connection that comes & goes. When it comes back I try to answer everything in the backlog in sequence, but if a post comes in whilst I'm working down the list I can tend to miss it if I am not careful enough so sorry.

 

You are the only person questioning the white thing which I think is very significant & should give a clue to the name of the test vehicle.

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I believe the Bloodhound test vehicles were the XTV and XRD series at Aberporth and Woomera respectively so I guess this is an XRD if at Woomera ?

 

The Thor engine was the Bristol Ramjet (so unrelated to the US LOX/Kerosene fuelled IRBM of the same name based at North Luffenham) and the eventual Bloodhound solid rocket booster was the Gosling (4 wrapped round the fuselage of the final Bloodhound) but this one seems to have a tail end nozzle on the centre fuselage for a single booster after the fashion of Bomarc)

 

It also seems to be missing the large moving wings of the eventual Bloodhound - possibly not yet fitted on this specimen ?

 

Iain

Edited by g0ozs
clarify bad choice of words

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I believe the Bloodhound test vehicles were the XTV and XRD series at Aberporth and Woomera respectively so I guess this is an XRD if at Woomera ?

 

The Thor engine was the Bristol Ramjet (so unrelated to the US LOX/Kerosene fuelled IRBM of the same name based at North Luffenham) and the eventual Bloodhound solid rocket booster was the Gosling (4 wrapped round the fuselage of the final Bloodhound) but this one seems to have a tail end nozzle on the centre fuselage for a single booster after the fashion of Bomarc)

 

It also seems to be missing the large moving wings of the eventual Bloodhound - possibly not yet fitted on this specimen ?

 

Iain

 

Iain XTV & XRD are not the terms used on the caption to the photo, if they are related I don't know. This is quite early on, it is not a Thunderbird prototype as such but a "ram jet test vehicle, powered with Thor motors, that is recoverable.......produced by the Bristol Aircraft Ltd & Bristol Aero-Engines Ltd under the Ministry of Supply research programme. It has contributed to the development of a surface-to-air missile on which the Bristol firm is at present engaged".

 

Incidentally up until a year ago I had a 5 GHz "rat-race" mixer from the IFF system for Bloodhound that I used to use on 5.7 GHz. Went in the scrap bin with all the TWTs, waveguide etc, wish I had kept it now.

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Clive,

Is the photo of the recovery operation of the rocket/missile? It would appear that the Commer is just a transporter, and also the white object, is this to show where it landed?

 

Some years ago I drove a Willys jeep up through South Australia and found one of the camera tracking points for rockets fired from Woomera and not far up the track stopped the night at the very remote pub at William Creek. Outside the pub was a large section of rocket recovered from nearby, it was I understand, the 1st stage of a Black Arrow. There was part of a smaller one as well, but nothing there to identify it.

 

As an aside, the pub had a filling station out front and light aircraft would taxy up from the airstrip to the front of the pub and fill up alongside any vehicle there.

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Clive

 

From my reading there were 3 generations of test vehicles - early propulsion only JTV series (which may be a better fit to the description of this as private venture work leading to a missile) and then the XTV and XRD series which gradually evolved into Bloodhound Mk1 when all of the susbsystems were added - I believe XRD is "Experimental Red Duster"

 

Iain

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Is the photo of the recovery operation of the rocket/missile? It would appear that the Commer is just a transporter,
Richard yes I am sure you are right

 

 

the white object, is this to show where it landed?
Yes again I am sure you are right

 

My suspicion is that this large white bobbin thing fits into that hollow in the nose & is probably what is referred to in "At the nose of the missile is a spike on which it lands at the end of the flight, parachutes having slowed down the speed of descent".

 

The only unanswered question now is the name of the test missile, although I have given what clue I can :-D

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The only unanswered question now is the name of the test missile, although I have given what clue I can :-D

 

 

Was it Red Shoes ?

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Clive

 

From my reading there were 3 generations of test vehicles - early propulsion only JTV series (which may be a better fit to the description of this as private venture work leading to a missile) and then the XTV and XRD series which gradually evolved into Bloodhound Mk1 when all of the susbsystems were added - I believe XRD is "Experimental Red Duster"

 

Iain

 

Iain it does all get rather confusing as I have myself demonstrated today! I have a useful book from 1976 by AR Adams "Good Company" on the Story of the Guided Weapons Division of the British Aircraft Corporation. He describes how Red Heathen spawned Red Shoes & Red Duster, but trying to keep track of the two parallel developments at Bristol & Luton is not always easy. I notice though that he mentions 5 stages of the XTV series.

 

Relevant to the picture he says "One feature of Bloodhound development was that, having no supersonic wind tunnel, it was all done by flight test. In fact during the period from 1951 to 1959 some 500 test vehicles and missiles were fired, starting with the test vehicle trials in the UK and leading up to development firings at Woomera of missiles of the same standard as those fired in Service acceptance trials."

 

Of course there were not as many as 500 of these test vehicles, as a feature was that they were recoverable as demonstrated by the Q4 doing its stuff.

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Richard

 

Red Shoes was the future English Electric Thunderbird (all rocket propulsion, cruciform fixed wings and moving tail controls) and Red Duster was the future Bristol/Ferranti Bloodhound Mk 1 with ramjets and all-moving wings

 

Iain

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Was it Red Shoes ?

Richard I have got to be careful as that is the other one. But those were development names for the whole systems, the name I was fishing for was for the test vehicle project itself. I have actually used the name in a recent post ;)

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Comparison Videos of both:

 

Bloodhound: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/raf-get-bloodhound-missiles/

 

Thunderbird: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/british-electric-thunderbird-guided-missile

 

A better look at Thunderbird in the last sequence of http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-rocket-race - also Malakara for Clive ;)

 

Iain

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