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nashio966

Stalwart Road Driving

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I understand that there are risks with driving a stalwart on the road concerning "diff wind up"

 

I was wondering how far you can drive one on asphalt safely?

 

couple of miles? 10? 50? i heard somewhere someone quote 1000 but i fail to see that being the case!

 

Any information would be massively appreciated :)

Edited by nashio966

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as long as you 'exercise' the transmission, by either letting the nearside wheels bounce up the kerbs now and then (when there are no plod around!!!), or a few laps of a gravel car park, or an empty farmers field(- when the farmer isn't looking!!!), you should have no problems.... driving in the rain helps alot to as it lets the wheels slip about a little...i do all these in my Saracen, and have had no problems, so far in about 2000miles in total on the roads around Hampshire..... hope this helps:-\

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Hi mate, cheers for that! Ive heard conflicting arguments for this "Wind up" that seems to hang round the neck of the stolley lol

 

One of the chaps on the stolley yahoo groups said that as long as all of the wheels are standard, and measured/matched, and that all of the fluids in the transmissions are as they should be, then there would be no problem?

 

Im not 100% convinced though.

 

Second question, im 22 so obviously gained my license after jan 1997, if i bought one and wanted to drive it on the road, am i going to have to sit a bloody HGV course to drive it on a public road?

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my tractor joint went after a short 20 mile journey....likely due to wind up...they are more likely to fail before the bevel boxes, or at least you hope.The saracen certainly did not have the reputation of the stolly for wind up but the drive line is basically the same. if you lower the suspension on the stolly and level out the tracta joint line then you reduce the risk of damage to the tracta joints but increase the likely hood any wind up will go to the Bevel boxes,...big problem to change.

 

i have never lost a bevel box but i do very little road mileage, maybe 200-300 a year...myths and stories maybe but technically it exists...

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Second question, im 22 so obviously gained my license after jan 1997, if i bought one and wanted to drive it on the road, am i going to have to sit a bloody HGV course to drive it on a public road?

Have a read of INF52 (link) - if you can't find an exemption in there that applies to you then yes, you will need category C on your licence.

 

As the Stolly came into service in 1966 you can't use age as an exemption - the one a lot of people here use is 'mobile project vehicles' but you'd need a lawyer to dig through the requirements for that :nut:

 

Stone

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Dear All ,

I ame a new member and in the process of purchasing a Alvis Stalwart. I ame just wondering wether one of you can provide me with some adressen for parts

Most appreciate your responses.

Have a nice day.

Stolly

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Right, now im really confused!!!

 

having spent the morning talking to people at VOSA to find out about road registration, mot testing and what a stolley would be classified as, ive been told that you Cannot legally drive a Stalwart on a public rod, because it is more than 2.55 metres wide?

 

How do you all get round this? :embarrassed:

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Right, now im really confused!!!

 

having spent the morning talking to people at VOSA to find out about road registration, mot testing and what a stolley would be classified as, ive been told that you Cannot legally drive a Stalwart on a public rod, because it is more than 2.55 metres wide?

 

How do you all get round this? :embarrassed:

 

 

Much discussed on here, I personally don't think they can be legally registered for road use, therefore they cannot be driven on the road, but this a possible, but untried way forward.

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?17128-Special-Types-Vehicle-Problems-A-Possible-Solution

 

Even if a Stollie or two has slipped through the net and been registered with DVLA for road use, it is pretty evident that this is an error on DVLA's behalf, and the registration has no legal basis, and therefore it is unlawful to use the vehicle because it has been incorrectly registered. (It is the owners responsibilty to ensure his vehicle is registered in the correct taxation class, and he can be prosecuted for using an incorrectly registered vehicle.)

Edited by antarmike

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Cheers for that mike! Im going to go and look at a few and see if I can find one that I can have a drive of (if im lucky) before I jump in the deep end.

 

Truly id love to own one, it would just be a shame if it couldnt be drive on the road a few miles to a show! Though there are several that are road registered!

 

Its all very confusing :nut:

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Keep the tyres matched on either side and more importantly keep the tyres inflated at the correct pressure. Get one that is already registered to save hassle. Bouncing up and down kerbs etc. does nothing for wind up.

Most people encounter transmission problems due to lack of maintenance especially fluid levels, get the manuals and carry out a full service before you take one anywhere, but beware the damage may have already been done by previous owners not carrying out the correct maintenance. There are not many un-abused ones out there now.

One unusual quirk on the Stolly is the transfer gearbox dip stick, its marked wrong and if used for reference the centre bevel boxes are starved of oil. The best way to be sure of the correct oil level in the centre bevel boxes is to remove the cover plates and fill them up directly. Then fill the transfer box up to the same level, you can then remark the dipstick to the correct level, usually about an inch higher than originally indicated.

Stolly’s are great fun but do take a lot of maintenance and if you get a bad one can be a real headache. I’ve had mine since 94 and only had transmission problems after doing daft things off road with it. I have driven thousands of road miles over the years and never had a problem with transmission windup, but I might just be lucky.

I personally think you can drive a Stalwart on the road legally, others on the forum will disagree and it has been debated to death elsewhere.

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(It is the owners responsibilty to ensure his vehicle is registered in the correct taxation class, and he can be prosecuted for using an incorrectly registered vehicle.)

 

Like running STGO vehicles taxed as Historic then. :-D

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Hi Grumpy,

 

Thanks for the info, I take it that this equally applies to Saracens and Saladins.

 

One Saracen manual actually states that one inflates and removes the wheels, accurately measure each one's circumference and then match the closest measurements. Now I have just been wondering, one side will have the "large" tires and on the other side, the "small" tyres. Surely that could cause hassles as well?

 

Regards.

 

Monty.

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Hi Grumpy,

 

Thanks for the info, I take it that this equally applies to Saracens and Saladins.

 

One Saracen manual actually states that one inflates and removes the wheels, accurately measure each one's circumference and then match the closest measurements. Now I have just been wondering, one side will have the "large" tires and on the other side, the "small" tyres. Surely that could cause hassles as well?

 

Regards.

 

Monty.

No because there is a differential between the sides, limited slip on a Stalwart, if there was no diff the thing would only want to go in a straight line !

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Hi Antar,

 

The diff is part of the transferbox, I presume? Outside of the Transferbox is just bevel boxes. I should really get more manuals to read on these vehicles.

 

Regards.

 

Monty.

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On 4/28/2010 at 4:58 PM, nashio966 said:

I understand that there are risks with driving a stalwart on the road concerning "diff wind up"

 

I was wondering how far you can drive one on asphalt safely?

 

couple of miles? 10? 50? i heard somewhere someone quote 1000 but i fail to see that being the case!

 

Any information would be massively appreciated :)

I drove a mk1 stalwart in germany with 12 sqn rct from 1964 to 1968, did hundreds of miles on roads and did not get any problems with wind up.

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Thanks for the plea of guilty Oily.

Any damage by a stollie in my Sussex fields, I will post an invoice for damage to you.

Cheers

 

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i drove the stalwart in the army in 1964 for three years on the german roads for hundreds of miles, no wind up.

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4 hours ago, mickeat said:

i drove the stalwart in the army in 1964 for three years on the german roads for hundreds of miles, no wind up.

I didn’t think the stolly was in service until 1966. Am I wrong?

Steve.

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53 minutes ago, mickeat said:

i drove the stalwart in the army in 1964 for three years on the german roads for hundreds of miles, no wind up.

It is a technical impossibility not to have 'wind up' even if all 6 tyres are the same size and pressure, as soon as you take a corner all six wheels are describing different radius circles.  The differential takes care of side to side differences but the wheels on each side are geared together directly with no compensation for differing speeds other than tyre slip.

You could claim that you had no adverse or damaging effects from 'wind up' but it was certainly there.

Scammell Pioneers and Explorers, Leyland Martians, mk1 Militants, mk1/2 Antars, Diamond Ts and many other older double drive trucks rely on tyre slip to prevent the final drives destroying themselves.

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8 minutes ago, radiomike7 said:

It is a technical impossibility not to have 'wind up' even if all 6 tyres are the same size and pressure, as soon as you take a corner all six wheels are describing different radius circles.  The differential takes care of side to side differences but the wheels on each side are geared together directly with no compensation for differing speeds other than tyre slip.

You could claim that you had no adverse or damaging effects from 'wind up' but it was certainly there.

 

Ask any REME VM who served in that time, they will have had plenty of experience of wheel station and bevel box damage on Stalwarts, and all the other Alvis 6x6 vehicles.

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3 hours ago, Ex-boy said:

I didn’t think the stolly was in service until 1966. Am I wrong?

Steve.

In a word, yes, mk I Stolly reg nos started with EK which was 62/63. I found a record card for chassis 35 with VRN 23EK71 DIS Jan 64.

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I worked with an ex RAF fireman who drove Alvis 6x6 fire crash trucks and in service they had a pile of sleepers near the  fire station which they drove over to unwind their Salamanders ( not a euphemism😊). This was part of their routine.

Edited by XS650
Clarity

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