Meadows 1960 commercial 5 speed gearbox info wanted

[Mark Ellis]

I don't know if many military vehicles used the Meadows 5 speed gearbox, but it was used on some of the prototype Alvis Stalwarts around 1961/62.

I can't find anything on the internet on Meadows gearboxes, other than they made them. I've emailed Wolverhampton Archives, but not hopeful.

Does anyone have or know any details on the Meadows 5 speed truck gearbox, please. 

Your help is greatly appreciated.

[David Herbert]

Does it have a reverse gear? If not that would greatly limit its applications. Or it could be a 5F + R with the R deleted or it may be a 4F + R design modified to give 5F but no R especially for the Stalwart / Salamander project.

David

Edited July 30, 2023 by David Herbert

[Mark Ellis]

1 hour ago, David Herbert said:

Does it have a reverse gear? If not that would greatly limit its applications. Or it could be a 5F + R with the R deleted or it may be a 4F + R design modified to give 5F but no R especially for the Stalwart / Salamander project.

David

Forward and Reverse is done by the Transfer box. In the Stolly, it did 40 mph forwards and backwards. The other FV600 all had pre select gearboxes and the forward/reverse transfer box

[wally dugan]

l thought the meadows was only fitted to the very early stalwart 2720 the later ones xx sp xx had the standard  one

 

[Mark Ellis]

9 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

l thought the meadows was only fitted to the very early stalwart 2720 the later ones xx sp xx had the standard  one

 

Hi Wally.
PV 4 and PV5 were sold to Sweden in 1962. Alvis wrote a provisional instruction manual for them, which states that they have Meadows boxes. I guess the Alvis one was introduced around PV8, as the American report from July 1963 doesn't mention Meadows in the description.
I'm struggling to find any document or spec for PV6, which was bought by Italy.

This extract is from the Alvis manual for PV4 and PV5
 

The full Alvis provisional manual can be viewed here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14218dLk89Is0P4Wo2mfFfzm9T4uv4c2k/view?usp=sharing

I'm slowly gathering more evidence of the differences of the PVs, most of which is included here 
https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/development-of-the-alvis-stalwart

 

[wally dugan]

PV 2 Was the first to have the meadows fitted  2720RW the FVRDE 1962 BOOK has a picture of it pv4/5/6 DO NOT appear in the FVRDE files

[attleej]

An interesting question is, if the later stollys did not have the Meadows gearbox, what were they fitted with?

John

[Mark Ellis]

38 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

PV 2 Was the first to have the meadows fitted  2720RW the FVRDE 1962 BOOK has a picture of it pv4/5/6 DO NOT appear in the FVRDE files

Thanks for the confirmation of PV2's box, Wally. Greatly appreciated. 
I guess then that PV 7 was an Alvis box.

Very little is know about PV7.
I think this is PV 7 at Earls court Commercial motor show in 1962.

 

Two books claim that it's PV2, but PV2 has very distinct side and indicator lights on the front.

 

What I think is PV 7 has a very distinct front side window.
I have photos of PV3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 10, and none have a window like this on the side. Almost like it's designed to release somehow.

 

[Mark Ellis]

26 minutes ago, attleej said:

An interesting question is, if the later stollys did not have the Meadows gearbox, what were they fitted with?

John

Alvis made their own 5 speed box, John
In the red box is the gearbox, with the power take off feeds on top for the Hydraulic pump and the Marine propulsion system drives.
The yellow is the gear box gear selector link.
The blue is the Transfer box, housing the Forward and Reverse gear, and limited slip dog clutch. The drive goes out sideways to the two central bevel boxes.
 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Mark Ellis

[attleej]

Interesting.  Presumably they made their own box so that they could have a power take off for the propulsion units at full engine RPM and torque and still be able to engage a rage of forward gears to get out of the water.

John 

[Mark Ellis]

2 hours ago, attleej said:

Interesting.  Presumably they made their own box so that they could have a power take off for the propulsion units at full engine RPM and torque and still be able to engage a rage of forward gears to get out of the water.

John 

Perhaps @wally dugan would be kind enough to share a photo of PV2's gearbox to show how it was all first set up with the Meadows box. It had the drives for the propulsion system and hydraulics from the beginning of PV2. 

From what I've read, they envisaged a top speed of 50 mph on the road, but that was sacrificed to around 40 (we used to almost get 43 on the Mk 2) because of the grunt needed for the off roading. Because the privately owned ones will never carry 5 tons of weight, people fit the Saracen transfer box gears, to give a greater top road speed. Some also fit air lockers on the front and rear drive shafts, so just the middle wheels propel them on the road. 

When FVRDE trilled PV1, which was just a Salamander fire crash tender with a cheap drop side body fitted, they reported that it performed off road worse than the Saracen - mainly due to the pre select gearbox.

 I've had a look through the SEME manual and parts list, but can't find an image that gives a cross section of the gearbox - to show how the take offs were powered at the clutch end of the box, on the primary drive.

The red area is the Marine propulsion drive, with the hydraulic pump at the front of it.

[wally dugan]

mark when l said l had a picture of the PV2 that had the meadows gear box fitted it is the pv2 not the gearbox but the spec con firms it is fitted at the moment the printer is off line but when its back on line l will  post the page from the 1962 book. l may have  a diagram of pv 2 in among the drawings but at this time l am down sizing  my vehicles 

 

[Mark Ellis]

12 hours ago, wally dugan said:

mark when l said l had a picture of the PV2 that had the meadows gear box fitted it is the pv2 not the gearbox but the spec con firms it is fitted at the moment the printer is off line but when its back on line l will  post the page from the 1962 book. l may have  a diagram of pv 2 in among the drawings but at this time l am down sizing  my vehicles 

 

Thanks for clarifying that, Wally.

I'm in an internet black hole today, waiting for the dog to have some tests done.

You'd think a University campus would have better phone signals. Upload speed of 0.04, takes forever to send a text response

I wonder if it states the Meadow gearbox model number at all for PV2,  please. 

[wally dugan]

here is the page as promised

pv2.bmp

[Mark Ellis]

2 hours ago, wally dugan said:

here is the page as promised

pv2.bmp 11.37 MB · 3 downloads

That's brilliant,  @wally dugan
Many thanks for that.