LarryH57 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) I realise that the petrol in my Lwt is a year old. It still starts and runs in the garage but the last time I took it out it was a bit rough. So how best to get rid of the fuel safely? About 1/3 full. I appreciate I can remove the drain plug and let it flow in to a container, but I don't want a fire or risk of explosion in my garage. Are there firms that could come and remove such fuel. I don't have a hard standing to be more in the open, so once out of the garage I am on a road way. Edited May 30, 2023 by LarryH57 Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 There are plenty of companies that will turn up to petrol station forecourts if you put the wrong fuel in your car so I assume they will do the same for you if you are happy paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmmoMan Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Just drive to the garage, fill the other 2/3 of the tank with fresh fuel and get out and enjoy the summer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim60 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 When i had a similar problem with my bikes i just filled the tank with fresh fuel and that cured 95% of the roughness .(obviously depends on how much fuel was already in it but probably a similar amount to what you have) Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 My theory; when the Lwt is started in the garage, the fuel sucked up the pipe is pure petrol as the ethanol is floating at the top. But once on the move it gets moved around and mixed, causing the rough running. After all my engine was designed for leaded petrol? Your thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, LarryH57 said: My theory; when the Lwt is started in the garage, the fuel sucked up the pipe is pure petrol as the ethanol is floating at the top. But once on the move it gets moved around and mixed, causing the rough running. After all my engine was designed for leaded petrol? Your thoughts! The ethanol content of fuel is fully dissolved, so the ethanol won’t be floating at the top. It is more likely that your problem is caused by water contamination, particularly if your vehicle has been standing for a long time. Ethanol is hygroscopic i.e. it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. Over time, this ethanol/water mix then separates from the fuel and sinks to the bottom of the tank, where it lies harmlessly out of reach of the pick-up pipe until you go for a drive, whereupon it gets shaken up and disperses into droplets which are sucked into your fuel system, hence the rough running. My advice would be to stand the vehicle on a level surface overnight, then drain about half a litre of fuel into a clear container and let it stand for a couple of minutes; if you can see one layer floating on top of another, then the bottom layer is water. The rest of the fuel should now be OK; you might even notice an improvement in running, as the ethanol that has mixed with the water will also have been removed. Edited May 30, 2023 by mtskull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 So the ethanol and water is heavier than Petrol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchlesswdg3 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 I use an additive to combat the effects of ethanol re water, etc. (yes, the ethanol pulls water out of the atmosphere and the ethanol/water mix sinks to the bottom of your tank. Nice experiment on line showing ethanol containing fuel being shaken up with coloured water in a big pop bottle........left to settle, the coloured water/ethanol separates out at the bottom and on top floats the petrol with no ethanol.). But I would not chuck out your old fuel; as AmmoMan says, fill up with fresh - maybe put in an additive (plenty around). My Lightweight has old fuel in it (12 months plus, but with additive) and no problem with running. These engines will run happily on pretty basic fuel. Lots of other reasons for rough running - spark plugs, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7VHU Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 7 hours ago, mtskull said: The ethanol content of fuel is fully dissolved, so the ethanol won’t be floating at the top. It is more likely that your problem is caused by water contamination, particularly if your vehicle has been standing for a long time. Ethanol is hygroscopic i.e. it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. Over time, this ethanol/water mix then separates from the fuel and sinks to the bottom of the tank, where it lies harmlessly out of reach of the pick-up pipe until you go for a drive, whereupon it gets shaken up and disperses into droplets which are sucked into your fuel system, hence the rough running. My advice would be to stand the vehicle on a level surface overnight, then drain about half a litre of fuel into a clear container and let it stand for a couple of minutes; if you can see one layer floating on top of another, then the bottom layer is water. The rest of the fuel should now be OK; you might even notice an improvement in running, as the ethanol that has mixed with the water will also have been removed. Gets my vote too. Drain carb float chamber too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlymb Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Mixing water (with food-dye) with petrol is actually a good way to separate the ethanol from it and syphon it off. Even if it's a lot of old fuel, just remove from the tank and mix in with fresh fuel a little bit at a time. I had about 25 liters of old E5 once and just put about 5 liters in with a full tank of fresh petrol in my daily driver, without any issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, LarryH57 said: So the ethanol and water is heavier than Petrol? Exactly. I don’t know if ethanol is heavier than petrol but water certainly is, whether or not it is combined with ethanol. The previous suggestion about adding food colouring is a good one; a little goes a long way and although it doesn’t affect the process of the ethanol combining with water, it colours water but not petrol, making it very easy to see which is which. To be clear, the problem with ethanol isn’t that it is a bad fuel as such (leaving aside the issues with seals & diaphragms in vehicles that were not designed to use it). The problem arises when it is left open to atmosphere (such as in a partly filled tank) for any length of time. Then it will absorb moisture, with all of the issues that entails. If you have E5 or E10 in your tank and aren’t going to use the vehicle for a while, best to either fill the tank brim full or, even better, drain it and run the carb & fuel lines dry. Edited May 31, 2023 by mtskull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) My Lwt started last evening, and when I drove out of the garage it stalled and wouldn't start. I then realised I had even less fuel that I thought and quickly added 10 litres of freshly bought E5 petrol from up the road, and after a few attempts it started, but only after the engine was colder. Attempts to start are in direct proportion to the 'displeasure' shown by 'Mrs' that I will only be up the garage for about 15 minutes! My fear is that I will stall at the lights and not be able to restart, when Itake it for a run. Sadly no time today, as have other 'normal' things to do like work. Edited May 31, 2023 by LarryH57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 I haven't started my Morris C8 or CMP C8a for a good 18 months And last Friday I decided it was high time I got my arse in gear. I am very naughty and put either E5 or E10 in all my classics depending on what pump I stop at but I do add frosts conditioner to each fill. It took about 3 hours but both vehicles started and ran perfectly, the time was mainly spent getting the lift pump off of the Morris and stripping it. The problem was just the it was dry, the petrol was long gone, the rubber bowl seal was fine and after cleaning the seats and wetting them, the pump sucked perfectly and it started almost immediately. I then started them again on Monday as I had planned to go to a local show and both started and ran great. I didn't get to the show as whilst doing a spot of light gardening with a digger a water pipe got in the way. Other than that I, run a series land rover 2a which I use for work and so far I haven't experienced any problems, a series 3 which we use only in the summer, so it sits all winter in the garage with out being started and that started fine about 3 weeks ago and then covered a 50 to 60 mile journey. Am I lucky, is the Frosts conditioner the answer or are we worrying too much about the supposed problems with E5/10 petrol? Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 My Dodge sat on axle stands for a year through covid. During that time I also moved house, so by the time I finally went to collect it from the storage yard, the petrol ( E5 ) was almost 2 years old. It still started up fine on 6 volts and once out of its shipping container, I added 10 gallons of fresh fuel and drove it home - no problems at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 4 hours ago, johann morris said: Am I lucky, is the Frosts conditioner the answer or are we worrying too much about the supposed problems with E5/10 petrol? Probably a bit of all three. Let’s not forget though, that it is very easy to blame stale fuel for rough running whilst overlooking the possibility that other things might be the culprit. For example, points can stick and condensers can degrade during periods of inactivity. Right, I’m now going to try to start my motorcycle, which has been standing in an unheated garage for two years with the tank half full of E5. Wish me luck…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7VHU Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Sorry but the expressions “only up in the garage for 15 mins” and “Land-Rover” are incompatible (or any other old vehicle). I once drained some 10+ year old petrol from a wartime fire engine. Burned well enough in my old Series one but the smell! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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