Bedford M Type - MK and MJ Manuals

[Mark Ellis]

Having successfully compiled a list of manuals and guides for the Stolly, I'm now gathering files for the Bedford Mk and MJ

I've put all the M Type service and maintenance files on the back end of my HMLC Stalwart site. Facebook isn't the best for displaying PDF files. 

https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/bedford-files-m-type-4x4-4-ton

There's a few files already released by the MOD for the MJ, but a few that aren't. I have submitted a second FOI for more files, but what I have so far is coloured in the chart below.
The orange colour means I have examples still restricted. Easy enough to get them unrestricted though. Incredibly, the Stolly IR switch is still classified information, so I guess the Bedford one will be as well.

If you've got any files, especially the MK, and can help then please drop me a line
Thanks

I have Bedford files 

But seek Bedford files

 

I don't have any MK files. I have asked MOD, but they might not have them so seek your help

I have the following MJ files

But seek the following files. I have asked MOD for these

Thanks for your help

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Mark Ellis
Updated files held

[robin craig]

Thank you on behalf of the rest of us for the work you have done

 

[Mark Ellis]

7 hours ago, robin craig said:

Thank you on behalf of the rest of us for the work you have done

 

Thanks. Really need a list of Associated Publications for the MK, so the MOD have named items to look for 

[Richard Farrant]

The MK literature was in EMER’s, the predecessor of AESP.

[fv1609]

This is from the detailed index EMER WHEELED VEHICLES A 100 Jan 1983. Associated publications will need a lot more digging to find the references.

[fv1609]

Mark all the 2320-H-100 series you have agree with the detailed index 2300-A-013 Feb 1995 but 2320-H-100-701 does not appear.

Are you just interested in the octad 2320-H-100 that covers all MJ variants? There are also variants:

2320-H-102  MJR 2BCO

2320-H-103 MJR 2OCO

2320-H-203 MJP

[fv1609]

There are several more pages like this with MK variants not to mention MJ variants.

It takes a bit of untangling in this abbreviated form as there are Army Coded publications, EMERs & AESPs.

 

[Mark Ellis]

2 hours ago, fv1609 said:

There are several more pages like this with MK variants not to mention MJ variants.

It takes a bit of untangling in this abbreviated form as there are Army Coded publications, EMERs & AESPs.

 

If I can get a look at an EMER Workshop manual (like the V64X files for the stolly), and an Army Code Number User Manual - that would give me the key manuals.
Much of the MJ vehicle is MK, so the MJ AESPs that I have will cover most repairs. But be good to have the manuals for the Multi-fuel MKs

Re the CES - just the basic for the With Winch would give a good enough idea of what was carried

Edited September 1, 2022 by Mark Ellis

[Mark Ellis]

3 hours ago, fv1609 said:

There are several more pages like this with MK variants not to mention MJ variants.

It takes a bit of untangling in this abbreviated form as there are Army Coded publications, EMERs & AESPs.

 

Did the MOD re-release the MK files as AESPs, or just stick with the EMERs?

[fv1609]

Nope, the only vehicle that had EMER transposed to AESP was S3 Rover in 2320-D-100 octad.

[Richard Farrant]

On 8/31/2022 at 12:54 AM, Mark Ellis said:

Having successfully compiled a list of manuals and guides for the Stolly, I'm now gathering files for the Bedford Mk and MJ
 

I've put all the M Type service and maintenance files on the back end of my HMLC Stalwart site. Facebook isn't the best for displaying PDF files. Waiting for MOD to provide some more files.

https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/bedford-files-m-type-4x4-4-ton

There's a few files already released by the MOD for the MJ, but a few that aren't. I have submitted a second FOI for more files, but what I have so far is coloured in the chart below.
The orange colour means I have examples still restricted. Easy enough to get them unrestricted though. Incredibly, the Stolly IR switch is still classified information, so I guess the Bedford one will be as well.
Need to get a list of Associated publications for the MK.

If you've got any files, especially the MK, and can help then please drop me a line
Thanks

 

 

 

 

Mark,

I note in your list of MK associated publications is one for a HIAB crane, not sure whether these were ever used on Army MK or MJ as I worked in REME workshops for 22 years and all the mounted loader cranes I ever had dealings with were Atlas make. I used to repair and test the cranes as one of my tasks.

 

[Mark Ellis]

11 hours ago, fv1609 said:

This is from the detailed index EMER WHEELED VEHICLES A 100 Jan 1983. Associated publications will need a lot more digging to find the references.

 

So the MK EMERs are F230 to F239? Thanks

For some reason I thought they would be Vxxx

[Mark Ellis]

28 minutes ago, Richard Farrant said:

Mark,

I note in your list of MK associated publications is one for a HIAB crane, not sure whether these were ever used on Army MK or MJ as I worked in REME workshops for 22 years and all the mounted loader cranes I ever had dealings with were Atlas make. I used to repair and test the cranes as one of my tasks.

 

You're right. I'm not sure where the item came from, but might be a TK item. The FOI for that has already gone in, so it won't hurt if it comes back. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Mark Ellis

[Mark Ellis]

11 hours ago, fv1609 said:

There are several more pages like this with MK variants not to mention MJ variants.

It takes a bit of untangling in this abbreviated form as there are Army Coded publications, EMERs & AESPs.

 

Clive, thanks for this.
Is there a listing for
With Winch MK
With Crane MK

I think the With Winch MJ is 31497

What does it mean by asset code

[wally dugan]

Like you have have had a long interest in ASEP's and EMERS and have been very lucky in a massing a large collection. l notice that this is missing from your list as to your question about the winch and crane is yes there are

[Mark Ellis]

1 hour ago, wally dugan said:

Like you have have had a long interest in ASEP's and EMERS and have been very lucky in a massing a large collection. l notice that this is missing from your list as to your question about the winch and crane is yes there are

 

Wally hi,

Thanks for that. Do you hold a copy of that manual?

[wally dugan]

l believe l have most if not all the publications   on computer that one there may be a spare copy as l did one for a   owner of a MJ some time back 

[Mark Ellis]

29 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

l believe l have most if not all the publications   on computer that one there may be a spare copy as l did one for a   owner of a MJ some time back 

I'm not sure that there is a 701, but if you have PDFs of these other ones then I'd appreciate a PDF. 

Whilst the FOI is in, with the Stolly files - I supplied them all to MOD to get them declassified - and then put them on the group and website. Just want to help keep the vehicles out of the scrap yards were possible.

Many thanks

[wally dugan]

I have just check the list there is no  701 in the 48 publication on MK/MJ that  l have. l no longer copy the EMER's or AESP's due to the actions of former forum member Sorry but as l do  have a spare copy of the CES above if you send your home address l will pop it in the post

[Mark Ellis]

12 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

I have just check the list there is no  701 in the 48 publication on MK/MJ that  l have. l no longer copy the EMER's or AESP's due to the actions of former forum member Sorry but as l do  have a spare copy of the CES above if you send your home address l will pop it in the post

Wally, thank you for the offer.

It's so upsetting when you lend files to others, and they don't come back.

Could I see your list of 48 Bedford files please. 

Do you have the CES as a PDF, as I'd rather have PDFs than posting files around. Did a lot of that for the Stalwart files. But before we start posting files, I'm going to see what MOD come back with.

I guess your version of the CES doesn't include the ground anchor scotches?

[fv1609]

On 9/1/2022 at 10:32 PM, Mark Ellis said:

What does it mean by asset code

Mark if you google for Asset Codes you will find that the MOD can only quote the current structure & has no understanding that this morphed from a system that on the face of it was identical, but was constructed differently.  

You will also find that a military museum states that Asset Codes are a NATO identifier. The NSN (NATO Stock Number) is the NATO identifier! Asset Code is evolved from a War Office, then MOD identifier that is preferred for asset management. The museum quote from a 1966 publication but have misunderstood the front page!

The simple answer is that an Asset Code is an MOD identifier of equipment of significant value typically vehicles but not exclusively. It reveals its type, role, make, model, variant etc.

The more complicated answer is below from an answer I posted some while ago, although this is in itself an over simplification.

In 1946 a Census Code for ‘B’ Vehicles was introduced consisting of 4-digits + 2-digits e.g. 6359/00. The reason was to adopt uniformity of asset cataloguing across all theatres that were able to use a punched card system. The first part of the code denotes the general vehicle class and the second part any subdivision e.g. 6359/10, 6359/20, 6359/30 etc. Class Codes started at 6000 with motorcycles and lighter vehicles progressing through heavier vehicles and trailers ending at 6988. Many codes were not allocated at the time to allow for additions of new types.

Later Census Codes were allocated consisting of 4-digits + 2-digits + 3-digits and in 1955 these changed to 6-digits + 2-digits + 3-digits.

The system gave a good deal of information about the vehicle but did not lend itself to Automated Data Processing (ADP) that was being introduced from 1964 in the form of VESPER (Vehicles, Equipment, Spares, Provision, Economics, Repair).

VESPER Codes used 4-digits + 4-digits, the first 4-digits form the Establishment Code Number and the last 4-digits the make, model and mark. When lumped together as 8-digits it forms the Vehicle Code Number.

In 1983 SALOME was introduced (System for Accounting & On-Line Management of Equipment) This was focussed not just on vehicles but equipment that also had codes and was known as Forward Management Codes which morphed into such things as Asset Codes and Liability codes etc in 2005 with the introduction of JAMES (Joint Asset Management & Engineering Solution).

Establishment Code  Number (ECN) has now changed to the Liability Number, when prefixed with a letter defining the Liability Type becomes known together as the Liability Code. When all this is prefixed with a letter denoting the Financial Management Indicator it all becomes the Liability Financial Code (LFC).

The final 4 digits are the SIN (Specific Indicator Number) when added to the LFC become the MAC (Materiel Asset Code)

These two 4+4 systems co-existed in databases although their structures are quite different. Applying a Sankey trailer Asset Code 2855-07** to the modern system shows that the equipment is a medium cargo truck, RHD powered by gas or chemicals!!

An FOI request as to the structure of VESPER Codes reveals that the MOD does not hold such information, despite some rather old things like trailers being derived from the earlier system that are still on census.

* I wrote this some years ago and by now there are probably no more VESPER coded items on census. But at the time I was surprised that the MOD had no understanding that the 4+4 code in use today is quite different from the 4+4 code originally introduced.

 

[Mark Ellis]

7 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Mark if you google for Asset Codes you will find that the MOD can only quote the current structure & has no understanding that this morphed from a system that on the face of it was identical, but was constructed differently.  

...

 

Good lord. Thanks for the enlightenment. I'm glad you're copying and pasting that, so much information there 

[Ex-boy]

One small addition to the above, which is probably not relevant to what you need, but in the paragraph on SALOME there is mention of Forward Management Codes. FORWARD was another acronym, for Feedback Of Repair Workshop and Reliability Data (if my memory is correct), just to add another layer to the already mind-boggling changes. Good lord indeed!

[fv1609]

1 hour ago, Ex-boy said:

One small addition to the above, which is probably not relevant to what you need, but in the paragraph on SALOME there is mention of Forward Management Codes. FORWARD was another acronym, for Feedback Of Repair Workshop and Reliability Data (if my memory is correct), just to add another layer to the already mind-boggling changes. Good lord indeed!

E-B you are correct, I should have used upper case for FORWARD. My treatment of it was somewhat scant for need for brevity.

Your memory is correct for the acronym although I do have one EMER that gets it wrong by stating that the last word is "Date" rather than "Data", rather ironic as this amendment was issued by the Data Centre!

EMER MANAGEMENT J 022 has nearly 100 pages of codes, there are 3 pages mainly of MJ & MK codes that I can copy if you want.

[Mark Ellis]

9 minutes ago, fv1609 said:

..!

EMER MANAGEMENT J 022 has nearly 100 pages of codes, there are 3 pages mainly of MJ & MK codes that I can copy if you want.

 

Clive, thanks for this. I shall skip the code, thank you
But if you could have a look to see if there's a CES listing for
W/Winch Bedford MK P2BMO
W/Crane Bedford MK P2BMO

Thanks